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Location: Dartmoor, Devon | Tim Prosser - 28/10/2008 11:17 >I can't see anything wrong with the map - what do you mean by 'ludicrous'? iI looks accurate, of the area and well annotated to me. Er, Gatesgarth Farm and Seatoller are nowhere near the labels... http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/oct/27/original-mountain-marathon... Seatoller is the Borrowdale side of the Honister pass, and Gatesgarth Farm is on the Buttermere side (but not the far side of the Lake ). I'm not sure why every news report says "Gatesgarth Farm, Borrowdale" - unless there is another one I don't know about... Yup - having read bdg's post, I agree, not sure it makes it ludicrous though. And they did admit their mistake. So, while people can be free to make a mistake by going up a mountain in the pouring, incessant, driving rain, certain newspapers can't even make a mistake and get a farm wrong on a map without the certain newspaper (and certain broadcasting corporation, or PC gone mad) bashers here letting fully rip... |
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Executive
Location: Evesham, Worcs | Peter H - 28/10/2008 11:32 So, while people can be free to make a mistake by going up a mountain in the pouring, incessant, driving rain, certain newspapers can't even make a mistake and get a farm wrong on a map without the certain newspaper (and certain broadcasting corporation, or PC gone mad) bashers here letting fully rip... But who says anyone made a mistake by going up a mountain in the pouring, incessant, driving rain? That's the point!
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Location: Southeast Essex | Its never a mistake to do anything if its your choice as an adult to do so. The whole point has been missed by a bunch of wet Liberal reporters who just don't get it. These reporters live predominantly cosy little lives in west London with the odd cocktail gossip evening bash. That's about the most excitement that they are ever going to get living that sorry sad existence.
Meanwhile, in the real world; real people do real things like actually leaving their warm comfortable living rooms and the TV to go outside and walk the hills in all weathers. That's the fun of it for them. Its the experience of the real wind, real rain, real temperatures and real scenery.
It doesn't make them mad or risk takers. It just means that they are not prepared to sit in doors watching a load of boring junk on the TV and reading the same old boring news in the newspapers dished up to them by the same old boring wet Liberal west Londoners with nothing else in their heads.
I say....good luck to them, good luck to their freedom, good luck to anyone who wants more than simply being another sheep. I say....get out there and do things for yourselves and if one or two people put themselves at risk in the process then so be it. Its a cheep price to pay IMO. |
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Location: Dartmoor, Devon | Andy Mayhew - 28/10/2008 11:39 Peter H - 28/10/2008 11:32 So, while people can be free to make a mistake by going up a mountain in the pouring, incessant, driving rain, certain newspapers can't even make a mistake and get a farm wrong on a map without the certain newspaper (and certain broadcasting corporation, or PC gone mad) bashers here letting fully rip... But who says anyone made a mistake by going up a mountain in the pouring, incessant, driving rain? That's the point!
Erm, there's a difference between organised events, which have, well, organisers and thus people responsible, and people doing as they want? I wouldn't want to stop you getting as cold and wet as you like  , but I do think it's different if people are, well, organised. No? |
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Hon Exec
Location: nr Belfast, 140m (460') asl | Village - 28/10/2008 12:31
Meanwhile, in the real world; real people do real things like actually leaving their warm comfortable living rooms and the TV to go outside and walk the hills in all weathers. That's the fun of it for them. Its the experience of the real wind, real rain, real temperatures and real scenery.
It doesn't make them mad or risk takers. It just means that they are not prepared to sit in doors watching a load of boring junk on the TV
I say....good luck to them, good luck to their freedom, good luck to anyone who wants more than simply being another sheep. I say....get out there and do things for yourselves and if one or two people put themselves at risk in the process then so be it. Its a cheep price to pay IMO.
I agree with the above, subject to one proviso. People would generally be "stupid" to put their lives at risk - ie risk of serious injury or death. As this often causes others, such as mountain rescue teams to put themselves at risk. |
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Location: London, UK | Village - 28/10/2008 12:31 The whole point has been missed by a bunch of wet Liberal reporters who just don't get it. Wet Liberal reporters? Were they in the race too? JohnF |
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Location: Ferryhill, Co Durham (6 miles S of Durham City) | snow hope - 28/10/2008 12:52
I agree with the above, subject to one proviso. People would generally be "stupid" to put their lives at risk - ie risk of serious injury or death. As this often causes others, such as mountain rescue teams to put themselves at risk.
As I said above, no-one forces these people to do anything, and that includes Mountain Rescue people (a lot of whom will have been actually taking part). Golden rule of rescuers - always make sure YOU are safe before trying to save others. Never risk your own skin, otherwise the whole thing becomes rather pointless, does it not?
The main grouse is still with the way the thing was reported and sensationalised in the press.
As someone has also said earlier, the amount of people getting far more serious injuries playing sports every day will greatly exceed the amount who ended up with minor injuries in this fell race. Shall we therefore ban these sports and prevent the games taking place at all? |
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Location: Reading | Driving kills the most people each year, and almost everyone does it! |
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Location: Tonbridge, Kent. 44m ASL | Presumably they have wet liberals in the posher parts of Kendal too; feet up, sipping champagne and doing naught more dangerous than watching Emmerdale
http://www.thewestmorlandgazette.co.uk/search/3791610.Hundreds_of_r...
Edited by Big Dave's Gusset 28/10/2008 13:21
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Executive
Location: Evesham, Worcs | Peter H - 28/10/2008 12:43 Andy Mayhew - 28/10/2008 11:39 Peter H - 28/10/2008 11:32 So, while people can be free to make a mistake by going up a mountain in the pouring, incessant, driving rain, certain newspapers can't even make a mistake and get a farm wrong on a map without the certain newspaper (and certain broadcasting corporation, or PC gone mad) bashers here letting fully rip... But who says anyone made a mistake by going up a mountain in the pouring, incessant, driving rain? That's the point!
Erm, there's a difference between organised events, which have, well, organisers and thus people responsible, and people doing as they want? I wouldn't want to stop you getting as cold and wet as you like , but I do think it's different if people are, well, organised. No? Just because it's an 'organised event' does not mean that highly intelligent and experienced mountaineers cannot take responsibility for their own actions on the hill. As they did. Those that did not wish to start didn't. Those that did did not regret it. The only 'mistake' was with the organisers not taking into account the possibility that low level flooding would cause the event to be abandoned and lead to problems when the competitiors came down off the hill.
btw how many casualties are there in a typical marathon?
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Executive
Location: Evesham, Worcs | Anyway, here's a first hand account of what really happened. Must say, I still think I was right!
http://yorkalpineclub.org.uk/blogs/?p=289
Bl**dy loonies if you ask me  |
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Location: Preston Lancashire | http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cumbria/7692727.stm The Organiser said he didnt get any advice from the Police and said it on the Local News last night. |
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Location: North Wales | Just thinking wondering if there should be more comment on this storygiven that the party were presumably much less well equipped to cope with bad weather than the particular group of fell runners who take part in the OMM. Sounds like they got caught out by the same problem that caused much of the problem for the OMM (low-level flooding).
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Executive
Location: Evesham, Worcs | The difference is, they had paid to visit the mines .... the runners, who were forced to spend the night there because they couldn't drive home, had not.
Me? A cynic? never! |
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Location: Hoylake, Wirral | If I remember correctly they only went to Honister Slate Mines because their intended field trip (ie glaciations/river morphology etc) was a washout!! |
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Location: Cheadle, Cheshire. 68m AMSL | PK2 - 28/10/2008 15:27Just thinking wondering if there should be more comment on this story given that the party were presumably much less well equipped to cope with bad weather than the particular group of fell runners who take part in the OMM. Sounds like they got caught out by the same problem that caused much of the problem for the OMM (low-level flooding ).
I'm sure they revelled in their freedom to witness one or more rivers in flood with a blocked escape route and little idea of what was likely to happen next..... |
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Executive
Location: Evesham, Worcs | Indeed they did - have you not read their accounts
(Both the schoolkids and the runners) |
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Manager
Location: WNW London | Village - 28/10/2008 11:11 Lets just make this clear though Andy; The emergency services are not at fault. The walkers also did nothing wrong, they were simply exercising their rights to freedom. Whoever contacted the emergency services should be questioned IMO. I can only imagine that the person who you think is to blame is the one that contacted the emergency services because their friends were becoming hypothermic. A number of admissions to hospital were for this reason, and before anyone suggests that all they need to cure it is a hot cup of cocoa and a warm bed, can I point out that hypothermia is a condition that can rapidly lead to death. Once the potential scale of the problem is known, the emergency services and the hospitals that may be required to take in potential casualties have to declare a Major Incident; this is in order to make sure the right personel are in the right locations, as well as ameliorating any disruption to the usual business of the day. From the polices point of view, if relatives are in the least concerned and report people as not having been in contact, the whole thing becomes a missing persons inquiry. ~Everyone must be accounted for before the inquiries can stop. If you call that an over-reaction then do so, but that is what has proven to work in the past and there is no reason to change it. |
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Manager
Location: WNW London | Andy Mayhew - 28/10/2008 13:31
btw how many casualties are there in a typical marathon?
Just over 0.1% is the answer to that one.
34,000 people finished the london Marathon in 2008 and "Approximately 40 runners were admitted to hospital accident and emergency departments but there were no fatalities and no intubations."
http://www.london-marathon.co.uk/site/?pageID=5&n=141
Which from my understanding of that statement meant that there was no one who needed admission to an ITU unit, ie, no serious casualties. I have heard of people who have died of heart attacks during the marathon so its not an impossibilty given the nature of these events.
14 people were taken to hospital with hypothermia and minor injuries out of 2000, about 0.7%. Can't find out how many of those were considered serious as the Northwest Ambulance site is pants and is as slow as a slow thing.
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Moderator
Location: Cheltenham | Whilst I agree that adults take their own risks, it is up to adults accompanying a group of children to do a risk assessment. This would include taking all the necessary advice from experts of the terrain if possible, together with weather awareness and appropriate equipment. Also, plan for any emergency sheltering or bear in mind signs that suggest the event should be aborted. |
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Floods strand hundreds of runners 25th Ocober
