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Location: Hoylake, Wirral | Keswick MRT had a busy day on 25th October judging by their incident reports page...
http://www.keswickmrt.org.uk/
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Manager
Location: WNW London | Interesting report there Singo. |
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Moderator
Location: North Yorkshire Moors - 250metres ASL |
The Original Mountain Marathon (OMM) was scheduled to take place with 2854 runners over the weekend of 25/26 October. The previous week had been very wet and Borrowdale had been flooded on the Thursday. There was a poor forecast for the weekend to follow with more rain and strong winds. The event went ahead but was abandoned a few hours into the race due to worsening weather conditions and more flooding. During the day, 14 people required assistance, with 10 needing hospital treatment. The injuries ranged from broken ankles and a broken elbow, various cuts and abrasions, and varying degrees of hypothermia. Keswick MRT was initially overwhelmed with calls for assistance, but soon had assistance from Cockermouth MRT, Penrith MRT and RAF Leeming MRT, and Wasdale MRT was also involved. The following 4 incidents were dealt with directly by Keswick MRT. Another female competitor with an ankle injury was taken by Raynet to Keswick Cottage Hospital. 2 other runners with hypothermia managed to get themselves to Seathwaite and a man with facial injuries was also brought down by the Team. | | 75 | 25 October | 12:05 | Rigg Head Quarries | A man (64 yrs) succumbed to the conditions and was stretchered off with a sprained ankle and hypothermia. | | 76 | 25 October | 12:30 | Gillercomb | A few minutes later we were also dealing with another competitor who had broken her ankle. She was carried down to Seathwaite in difficult conditions and later taken over the Honister Pass to the West Cumberland Hospital as the normal route to Keswick had become impassable. | | 77 | 25 October | | Gillercomb | While we were dealing with this incident, we had yet another casualty with a broken ankle who was evacuated to Honister. | | 78 | 25 October | | Sty Head track to Seathwaite | A lady (45 yrs) who had head injuries and a broken elbow was then reported to be making her way down from Sty Head. We dispatched a team member to ensure that no further immediate care was required. She was sheltered in a house at Seathwaite and attended to by a paramedic until the road conditions permitted evacuation to the West Cumberland Hospital. | | | Because of the simultaneous, multiple casualty scenario, our resources were stretched. This was further complicated by the severe flooding which was taking place. Normal road routes were impassable. We had to abandon one of our Land Rovers until the following day due the River Derwent rising so quickly. On Sunday, as there were still competitors who had not reported in, we stood by until 14:30 hrs when the final 8 runners were accounted for. |
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Location: Hoylake, Wirral | There are some interesting reports on the Wasdale & Cockermouth MRT's websites too.
Meanwhile, two weeks later, Sour Milk Gill, the principal run-off stream from Gillercombe down to Seathwaite was still roaring away. Plenty of evidence of flood damage further down Borrowdale too.
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Location: Warrington | Is that you then Tom?  |
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Location: Hoylake, Wirral | Happen it may be 5hort5!  |
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Location: Warrington | If that was Sunday u should have been up Harter feel with me - that was Brutally cold
http://www.ukweatherworld.co.uk/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=26... |
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Location: Cheadle, Cheshire. 68m AMSL | Singo - 11/11/2008 00:23 Meanwhile, two weeks later, Sour Milk Gill, the principal run-off stream from Gillercombe down to Seathwaite was still roaring away. Plenty of evidence of flood damage further down Borrowdale too. Two weeks?? Just the thought of that on the day gives me the creeps. |
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Manager
Location: WNW London | I note the phrase in that Keswick MRT report that they were "overwhelmed with calls for assistance". I take it that these were from the same people that were experienced fell walkers that were fully prepared for a night on the hills. |
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Executive
Location: Evesham, Worcs | Maybe. But I wonder how many calls they would have had had the weather been less severe? It would appear the call outs were primarily for injuries - not necessarily related to the actual weather conditions. I don't know how many such injuries normally occur during a major mountain marathon.
But as already noted, the number of people requiring medical assistance on this occasion was considerably less than the numbers in a typical city centre marathon.
And had low level flooding not exasperated the situation, would we even have heard about it?
IMO the real news story here ought be that despite so many people being on the hill in severe weather, there were very few casualties ...... just showing how well prepared and experienced they all were. But accidents do of course happen to the best of us.
But of course we live in a society where lowest common denominator rules  How dare people do things the majority of us cannot! |
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Location: Southeast Essex | Andy, I concur with your thoughts here; "IMO the real news story here ought be that despite so many people being on the hill in severe weather, there were very few casualties ...... just showing how well prepared and experienced they all were. But accidents do of course happen to the best of us. " Further, it would be interesting to know how many people usually do get injured with a party as large as this in normal conditions. One would probably find that the numbers who needed attention are nothing out of the ordinary and didn't constitute an emergency classification. Too much of the 'nanny state' IMO. If we carry on down this road, in the future we will find all the lumpy terrain in our country closed to walkers lest we hurt ourselves or emergency services are put at risk by being made to walk on really dangerous wet grassy hills to protect us all against ourselves! |
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Location: Reading | This is true - think of the kids of today who seem to be nannied through early school life - you need a few knocks and bruises from playing, climbing trees, etc, to show you what your limits are, otherwise you have no idea of what might hurt! |
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Location: Southeast Essex | Agreed,
Mistakes are actually good for Mankind. Mistakes are what constantly keep us alert and in check with our natural surroundings. Its the same as illness and disease. Mankind needs it in the same way because for every person who is struck down by disease or by nature there will be a legacy. As long as this legacy remains fresh then it will protect.
The whole of the natural world works in this way. If we wrap ourselves up in cotton wool we will isolate ourselves from the real world and fall fowl of greater dangers in the future. Some would say that it's already too late! |
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Manager
Location: WNW London | Andy Mayhew - 12/11/2008 09:51
Maybe. But I wonder how many calls they would have had had the weather been less severe? It would appear the call outs were primarily for injuries - not necessarily related to the actual weather conditions. I don't know how many such injuries normally occur during a major mountain marathon.
But as already noted, the number of people requiring medical assistance on this occasion was considerably less than the numbers in a typical city centre marathon.
Andy I provided the figures to compare it with a city centre marathon, and percentage-wise there were about 7 times more injuries. I am not sure how that is considerably less...
Hypothermia I can only suggest is due to the weather conditions, cold is one thing but wet and cold is a recipe for hypothermia. Poor footing due to wet, slippery conditions or more likely, not actually being able to see where you are putting your feet would likely account for the fractured ankles and broken arms.
If the weather was more clement I doubt that there would have been any injuries. |
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Location: Southeast Essex | You do realise Liz that if you persist with your line of thought you may make yourself redundant and then we can all sit in bed with a horlicks and watch TV at home in the warm every night of the year.
There is a limit as to where one draws the line when it comes to protecting the already protected from themselves!
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Executive
Location: Evesham, Worcs | scrapemedic - 12/11/2008 12:44 Andy I provided the figures to compare it with a city centre marathon, and percentage-wise there were about 7 times more injuries. Oops .... sorry, I missed that :% I'm surprised to be honest (I'd assumed a lot more), though I guess it varies according to weather conditions.
Hypothermia I can only suggest is due to the weather conditions, cold is one thing but wet and cold is a recipe for hypothermia. Indeed. I doubt there is a serious hillwalker in the country who has not at some point suffered from mild hypothermia. I know I have. It only really requires medical attention when a medic is on hand to a) diagnose it and b) provide medical attention. The rest of the time we just get warm and dry and have a hot drink and some chocolate Of course, events transpired to prevent this in some cases.
Poor footing due to wet, slippery conditions or more likely, not actually being able to see where you are putting your feet would likely account for the fractured ankles and broken arms. If the weather was more clement I doubt that there would have been any injuries. If the weather were perfect there would not have been many competitiors The whole point is that the weather is intended to be inclement and the conditions on the hill were not especially severe (if you're experienced - as most of these were - at being on the hill in severe weather). Yes, some minor casualties occurred. But such minor casualties would have been expected. The problem was the low level flooding preventing cold, wet and tired competitors from getting to their cars and driving home. This ought have been anticipated and is a reason cancellation ought have been considered. But to say the event should have been cancelled, or the organiser criticised, because it was wet and windy on the hill is akin to saying the round the world yacht race should be cancelled because it's stormy in the Indian Ocean.
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Location: Tonbridge, Kent. 44m ASL | Out of interest do the competitors have to take out insurance before they are allowed to take part? Noting the comparison with rugby, all clubs are required (by the RFU in the case of England) to have insurance against injury and disability caused during a game and all players - whether amateur or pro - are strongly advised to take out insurance cover for medical treatment costs. As a hillwalker I don't have insurance to cover myself in the UK but it's pretty much compulsory to have a policy that covers mountain activity with extra costs for more "hazardous" activities such as winter walking for overseas trips. |
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Manager
Location: WNW London | If we all stayed in bed Vill, I would get called out to many more maternity calls instead, so redundancy is not likely.
Don't get me wrong, I love dangerous sports and pushing the envelope, I ski and scuba dive, done the training for parachuting but was only stopped by the weather from actually making the jump, I used to horse ride and have walked up both Snowdon and Ben Nevis, both in inclement weather, Rock climbed (my best was a two point climb on Nevis) though condsider myself a novice at that.
My take on this is this. When I ski I hope and have expectations that if I hurt myself, I do it in a way that is unlikely to put those who come to rescue me at risk. I may choose not to ski when the mountain is in thick cloud, or if it is only ski in areas where help is close to hand, on well marked and well populated pistes, not go off-piste into hard to access areas.
When you are part of a large event, you have some expectation that the organisers have chosen to continue with the event as they consider that the event could be completed by the worse competitor in the event. You may think you know your abilities and limits, but put trust in the organisers to also know your limits therefore consider that the event is safe for you. That might be a wrong assumption, but I am sure that is what some of those competitors thought. |
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Manager
Location: Machynlleth, Mid Wales | PaulKn - 12/11/2008 12:00 This is true - think of the kids of today who seem to be nannied through early school life - you need a few knocks and bruises from playing, climbing trees, etc, to show you what your limits are, otherwise you have no idea of what might hurt! This is an important point. Getting a few mucky cuts and grazes a year in childhood should be regarded as normal and it additionally (more importantly) helps the immune system to develop into an effective state. Cheers - John |
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Manager
Location: WNW London | John Mason - 12/11/2008 14:49
PaulKn - 12/11/2008 12:00 This is true - think of the kids of today who seem to be nannied through early school life - you need a few knocks and bruises from playing, climbing trees, etc, to show you what your limits are, otherwise you have no idea of what might hurt! This is an important point. Getting a few mucky cuts and grazes a year in childhood should be regarded as normal and it additionally (more importantly) helps the immune system to develop into an effective state. Cheers - JohnÂ
Again I totally agree with that, but having been called out to someone with a minor wasp sting because "It Stings!" and after explaining to him that is why they call it a wasp "sting", on further questioning find out that the patient had never been stung by anything not even a nettle you begin to realise the problem. Its not a nanny state per se; it dealing with people who have been over protected by thier parents, who weren't allowed to play in the woods because of the bad people who hang out in the woods, who think that they can now do anything because, quite frankly, things have been made so accessible to a greater percent of the population that they fail to see the danger in those activities. And more importantly are more than happy to sue should something go wrong.
When we have litigeous and often frivolous claims for events that occured forty years ago, even were an organisation is not held vicariously responsible for an event, they then have to put in place systems and protocols to ensure that, as they have now been made aware of the possibility of and event occuring, that they can prevent it from occuring in the future and not be held negligent.
To a greater extent it is not the states fault, its the people taking part. |
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Floods strand hundreds of runners 25th Ocober
