[Mesogeiakos]

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storm63 - 22/3/2010 12:18

Looks like Athens it is then, found this comment

Some people are not aware that the Attica Basin in Greece is by far the warmest place in Europe.The correct european record THAT HAS BEEN OFFICIALLY AND UNIVERSALLY ACKNOWLEDGED is 48.0 in Athens.The record is peered reviewed and adopted UNIVERSALLY and OFFICIALLY by all the serious sources...simply because the record is undisputed and recorded simultaneously in two suburbs of the Greek capital.In fact the reading was initially 48.7 and 2 years later it was rounded down to 48.0 by the National Observatory of Athens and the Greek meteorological Organisation.All the records are presented before the World Weather Organisation and after tremendous scrutiny the records are established.It takes international publications and peer reviewed data to establish a record!!!The Athenian record has passed all the credibility tests because it comes from TWO OFFICIALLY recording stations of the OFFICIAL Greek authorities!!Catenanuova record is NOT regarded in Italy as official!!Its simple 

Well I knew it was initially 48.7 and then they rounded it down to 48.0 but I didnt know they did it two years later.I thought it was done recently because sometimes within Greece we still get the 48.7 as official.

Indeed the Attica Basin has been consistently giving very high values.Specially the Thriaseion Valley within metropolitan Athens is susceptible to Saharan winds.In fact in 2007 again the Attica Basin reached 47.5 in the Athenian suburb of Nea Filadelfeia.

The hot spots inside the Athens metropolitan area are Eleufsina,Tatoi and N.Filadelfeia.

In fact Eleusina which is a coastal suburb of Athens has been consistently giving Greece's highest temps in summer.Both stations quoted above are from the EMY which is the official state institution for weather forecasts ,records,etc

[Dave K]

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storm63 - 22/3/2010 11:37 I never get that? Is Russia in Europe? :s

Well certainly the part of Russia west of the Urals is considered as Europe, and Ust'Schugor is in the Komi Republic which is west of the Urals, as is Hoseda-Hard (or Khoseda-Khard) in Nenetskiy which is another of the European coldest places.  Europe includes the far western part of Kazakhstan and the Caucasian countries of Georgia and Azerbaijan (both curiously can also be regarded as Asia) though Armenia is generally regarded as part of the Asiatic landmass.

[Ian Williams]

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Big Dave's Gusset - 22/3/2010 12:49

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storm63 - 22/3/2010 11:37 I never get that? Is Russia in Europe? :s

Well certainly the part of Russia west of the Urals is considered as Europe, and Ust'Schugor is in the Komi Republic which is west of the Urals, as is Hoseda-Hard (or Khoseda-Khard) in Nenetskiy which is another of the European coldest places.  Europe includes the far western part of Kazakhstan and the Caucasian countries of Georgia and Azerbaijan (both curiously can also be regarded as Asia) though Armenia is generally regarded as part of the Asiatic landmass.

Cheers Dave, I must still be living in Soviet times   [hehe]

[Dave K]

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storm63 - 22/3/2010 12:52

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Big Dave's Gusset - 22/3/2010 12:49

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storm63 - 22/3/2010 11:37 I never get that? Is Russia in Europe? :s

Well certainly the part of Russia west of the Urals is considered as Europe, and Ust'Schugor is in the Komi Republic which is west of the Urals, as is Hoseda-Hard (or Khoseda-Khard) in Nenetskiy which is another of the European coldest places.  Europe includes the far western part of Kazakhstan and the Caucasian countries of Georgia and Azerbaijan (both curiously can also be regarded as Asia) though Armenia is generally regarded as part of the Asiatic landmass.

Cheers Dave, I must still be living in Soviet times   [hehe]

Well I get a bit flustered when I see Turkish "Asia Minor" places such as Ankara, Antalya and Izmir listed under Europe in weatheronline [me?]

And as for the Canary Islands - don't get me started!   666

[Mesogeiakos]

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Big Dave's Gusset - 22/3/2010 11:49

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Mesogeiakos - 22/3/2010 11:42

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Chris Lloyd - 22/3/2010 11:28 And a thank you wouldn't go amiss Pit, even if you don't agree with what people are suggesting to you [hehe]

Oh I can be so absorbed sometimes that I forget to thank you. Dont mind me please:) Thank u indeed. I came across the Italian record in the past...and for the life of me I CANNOT understand if it is official within Italy.I dont speak Italian and cannot do the research my self. Big Dave,the Italian extract you have mentions what exactly...I dont get it.I dont mean to appear stupid or anything:)

OK, no worries, you seem to be linguistically gifted with your excellent English so I didn't translate:

"Un altro importante valore, riguardante però una piccola cittadina siciliana, sono i +48,5 °C registrati a Catenanuova il 10 agosto 1999 dalla locale stazione meteorologica idrologica non ufficialmente riconosciuta dall'organizzazione meteorologica mondiale."

Another important value to be re-examined however, from a small Sicilian town, is 48.5 °C recorded at  Catenanuova  on 10 August 1999 from a local meterological/hydrological station, not officially recognised by the World Meteorological Society.

Indeed the Italian Met site is not very helpful or easy to navigate so I can't find their official position.

Big Dave can I have the Italian link for the Italian extract above please?I tried to check the Italy Met office but could not find this bit that says that the Catanenuova temperature is not officially recognised.

[Mesogeiakos]

An interesting find...

Please note that the 48.7 temperature in Athens is still being referred as official record within Greece.
Our understanding is that the National Observatory of Athens has recorded 48.7 in Tatoi and the Greek Met Office has recorded 48.0 on the same very day in Tatoi (apart from Elefsina),however the 48.0 has been registered as official since the National Observatory of Athens does not have the right within Greece to register official records etc.
However the 48.7 was indeed recorded by the National Observatory of Athens on 10/7/1977

Please find below all the places in Greece that registerd a temperature above 44.0

http://www.e-kairos.gr

Site/City Region Month Tmax (ºC) Date Comments

Tatoi/AP Attica 7 48.7 10/7/1977 Also 44.5C on 3/7/1998 and 43.6C on 25/7/2007.
Elefsina/AP Attica 7 48.0 10/7/1977 Previous record was 46C on 19/7/1973. Also 45.2C on 27/7/1987 and 25/7/2007 and 45C on 3/7/1998.
Nea Filadelfia/Athens 6 47.5 26/6/2007 From the automated HNMS weather station.
Trikala Thessaly 8 47.2 During the 1955-1994 period, the record seems to be 43C on 1st August 1985.
Lamia 7 46.5 19/7/1973 Also 45.6C on 25/7/2007 and 44C on 3/7/1998.
Pyrgela 6 46.4 26/6/2007 Previous record of 41.2C on 25/6/1982 was smashed.
Palaeochora Crete 7 46.2
Volos/AP Thessaly 7 46.2 19/7/1973 Also 43.6C on 25th July 2007 and 43C on 27/7/1987 and on 9/7/2000.
Nea Filadelfia/Athens Attica 6 46.2 26/6/2007 Previous record was +44.6C on 25/6/1982.
Sparta Peloponnese 8 46.0 24/8/1924
Astros Peloponnese 6 46.0 26/6/2007 Previous record was 42.2C on 16/6/1978 and was oh so smashed.
Tanagra/AP Central Continental Greece 7 46.0 19/7/1973 Also 43.0C on 25/7/2007 and 39.8C on 15/7/2008.
Ilion/Athens (AWS) Attica 6 45.9 26/6/2007 From the automated HNMS weather station.
Irakleio/city Crete 6 45.7 29/6/1916 From a HNMS station in the city of Irakleio, before the airport was built.
Larisa/AP Thessaly 7 45.4 5/7/2000 Previous record was 45.2C on 7/7/1988. Also 45C on 19/7/1973, 44.0C on 3/7/1998 and 43.8C on 27/7/1987.
Markopoulo/Ippasia (AWS) Attica 6 45.3 26/6/2007 Automated HNMS weather station.
Nea Ionia/Volos (HW) Thessaly 6 45.3 26/6/2007 The station exists since only 9/2006.
Monemvasia (NOA) Peloponnese 6 45.2 26/6/2007
Galatsi/Athens (Meteonet/NTUA) Attica 6 45.1 26/6/2007 The station exists since 6/2005.
Kalamata/AP Peloponnese 6 45.0 16/6/1916 The record was equalled on 24/6/2007. Also 41.8C and was measured on 25/6/1982. The 1916 observation was probably recorded at a different site than the later ones.
Velos Peloponnese 7 45.0 3/7/1998
Megara Attica 6 45.0 26/6/2007 No decimals available. May not be an all-year record. Quoted here for reference.
Aliartos Central Continental Greece 8 45.0 21/8/2006 Must be a record. Quoted here for reference.
Souda (NAGREF) Crete 6 45.0 26/6/2007 Maximum temperature for at least 20 years.
Zografou/Athens (Meteonet/NTUA) Attica 6 45.0 26/6/2007 The station exists since 8/2005.
Palaeochora (NOA) Crete 6 45.0 25/6/2007 44.3C on 24/6/2007. Watch the temperature go up and down as the hot katabatic northerly would frequently switch with the sea breeze. A maximum heat index of 52.2C was recorded. The station exists since only 9/2006.
Trikala (NOA) Thessaly 7 44.9 25/7/2007 Also 41.2C on 8/7/2008 and 39.8C on 15/7/2008. The station exists since only 3/2007.
Athens/Patission (HW) Attica 6 44.9 26/6/2007 The station exists since only 6/2007 and is on a roof.
Agrinio Western Greece 8 44.8 Also 43C on 21/8/2006.
Thisseio/Athens Attica 6 44.8 26/6/2007 Previous record was 43.0C on 21/6/1916 (Julian calendar, probably) and had been equalled on 2/7/1998.
Zappeio/Athens (AWS) Attica 6 44.8 26/6/2007 Automated HNMS weather station.
Volos (NOA) Thessaly 6 44.7 26/6/2007 The station is on a roof and exists since only 1/2007.
Serres Central Macedonia 7 44.6 25/7/2007 Previous record was 42.8C on 7/7/1988.
OAKA/Athens (AWS) Attica 6 44.6 26/6/2007 Automated HNMS weather station.
Kainourgio/Fthiotida (HW) Central Continental Greece 6 44.6 27/6/2007 The station exists since only 11/2006.
Votanikos/Athens Attica 7 44.5 2000 Presented station data for this month include years 1991-2001 only.
Acharnae/Athens (Meteonet/NTUA) Attica 6 44.4 26/6/2007 The station exists since 2/2005.
Acharnae/Athens (HW) Attica 6 44.4 26/6/2007 Also 36.7C on 19/6/2006. The station exists since only November 2005.
Irakleio/AP Crete 8 44.4 12/8/2002 Previous record was 38.2C on 26/8/1994 and was smashed in 2002, first through a 42C reading on 11/8/2002.
Goudi/Athens (AWS) Attica 6 44.3 26/6/2007 Automated HNMS weather station.
Pyrgos Western Greece 8 44.3 Also 41.8C on 21/8/2006.
Chalkida (HW) Central Continental Greece 6 44.3 27/6/2007 Also 39.6C on 19/6/2008. The station exists since only 1/2006.
Tanagra (NOA) Central Continental Greece 7 44.3 25/7/2007 Also 39.4C on 15/7/2008 and 38.4C on 8/7/2008. The station exists only since 7/2007.
Larisa (HW) Thessaly 7 44.3 25/7/2007 Also 41.1C on 8/7/2008. The station exists since only 10/2006.
Arta Epirus 7 44.2 5/7/1916
Chalkida Central Continental Greece 7 44.2
Gortys Crete 7 44.2
Nafplio Peloponnese 7 44.2
Volos/city Thessaly 7 44.2
El. Venizelos/Athens (AP) Attica 6 44.2 26/6/2007 Data since 1/2004 only.
Elos/Chania (NAGREF) Crete 6 44.2 26/6/2007 The station exists since only 6/2007 but this is probably a record for quite a long time.
Aegio Western Greece 7 44.1
Dafni (Monastery, AWS) Attica 6 44.1 26/6/2007 Automated HNMS weather station.
Kalampaka Thessaly 7 44.0
Karditsa Thessaly 7 44.0
Lidoriki Central Continental Greece 7 44.0
Tympaki Crete 7 44.0 3/7/1998 Record equalled on 25/7/2007. Also 41.0C on 24/7/2007. Systematic data in the database since 1/2010.
Thessaloniki/AP Central Macedonia 7 44.0 25/7/2007 Previous record was 42.4C on 5th July 2000. Also 42.0C on 7/7/1988 and on 19/7/1973.

[Dave K]

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Mesogeiakos - 23/3/2010 16:41

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Big Dave's Gusset - 22/3/2010 11:49

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Mesogeiakos - 22/3/2010 11:42

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Chris Lloyd - 22/3/2010 11:28 And a thank you wouldn't go amiss Pit, even if you don't agree with what people are suggesting to you [hehe]

Oh I can be so absorbed sometimes that I forget to thank you. Dont mind me please:) Thank u indeed. I came across the Italian record in the past...and for the life of me I CANNOT understand if it is official within Italy.I dont speak Italian and cannot do the research my self. Big Dave,the Italian extract you have mentions what exactly...I dont get it.I dont mean to appear stupid or anything:)

OK, no worries, you seem to be linguistically gifted with your excellent English so I didn't translate:

"Un altro importante valore, riguardante però una piccola cittadina siciliana, sono i +48,5 °C registrati a Catenanuova il 10 agosto 1999 dalla locale stazione meteorologica idrologica non ufficialmente riconosciuta dall'organizzazione meteorologica mondiale."

Another important value to be re-examined however, from a small Sicilian town, is 48.5 °C recorded at  Catenanuova  on 10 August 1999 from a local meterological/hydrological station, not officially recognised by the World Meteorological Society.

Indeed the Italian Met site is not very helpful or easy to navigate so I can't find their official position.

Big Dave can I have the Italian link for the Italian extract above please?I tried to check the Italy Met office but could not find this bit that says that the Catanenuova temperature is not officially recognised.

It is from http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clima_italiano but it doesn't give any citation for the origin of the statement.  I gave up searching the Italian met site as it doesn't seem to have a centralised reference for extreme values as far as I could see.

[Ian Williams]

Found this for Italy http://translate.goo...FClima_italiano

 

Go to bottom of page and click on Number 8 link

[Mesogeiakos]

very interesting indeed!I have a passion with high extremes!thank u very much both of u
however I am still unsure if Italy considers Catenanuova temp official though I tend to believing its not.Shall do further research on it

[Dave K]

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storm63 - 23/3/2010 18:10

Found this for Italy http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fit.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FClima_italiano

Go to bottom of page and click on Number 8 link

Thanks Ian, trouble is again this is a "secondhand" source being a weather news and views type site and not run by the Italian Met Office, with no link/origin for the data. However, that they do not note the 48.5 °C reading is probably a good indication of its unofficial and unreliable nature. Still they probably felt the need to compile this because it's not easily found (if at all) on the Meteoam site (possibly one has to scrutinise the data for each individual station). The curious thing is a "curiosità" page at http://clima.meteoam.it/curiosita.php which gives world figures, but try finding anything for Italy alone...

[Mesogeiakos]

And here is the official indication from the Greek Met office site on the Athens temperature record of 48.0

http://www.hnms.gr/h...gion=ClimAttiki

It's in Greek but u ll understand the readings


just found the english version of it

http://www.hnms.gr/h...gion=ClimAttiki

[HSEA]

Id be surprised if the record was anywhere else than the Seville/Cordoba area of spain; It just looks right, so close to the Sahara, and such a narrow strait of gibraltar. That being said, the Shetlands record (28c) amazingly is marginally warmer than the Scillies (27c), so i guess it could be somewhere surprising like Sicily.

[Mesogeiakos]

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HSEA - 23/3/2010 20:28

Id be surprised if the record was anywhere else than the Seville/Cordoba area of spain; It just looks right, so close to the Sahara, and such a narrow strait of gibraltar. That being said, the Shetlands record (28c) amazingly is marginally warmer than the Scillies (27c), so i guess it could be somewhere surprising like Sicily.

I believe that the Seville temperatures are a myth generally.The wider area of Andalusia near Seville and Cordova do get extremely hot but still we get areas in Sicily and Greece that consistently top Seville's extreme temperatures.


What is more suprising though is that generally people all over Europe have not taken a closer look to the Attica basin and the wider metropolitan Athens area in terms of how hot it can actually get over there.I grew up in Athens and let me tell you....boy,you would not want to be in Athens during July.It is sweltering

The geomorphology of the Attica basin is such that it favors extreme summer temperatures.Athens is protected from the cold winds by 3 huge mountains in the North,East and West (Parnitha,Penteli,Imitos) forming a rain shadow and leaving it totally unprotected from the south thus making the whole of the Greek capital prone to the Saharan winds (which we call in Greece -Livas winds) that can bring temperatures up dramatically.

In fact I can tell you with almost 100% certainty that Athens each and single decade in the 20th century has had higher official extreme summer temperatures compared to Seville.

The last 35 years Athens metropolitan area has registered numerous times official temperatures over 44C in various Athenian suburbs and I am certain that Seville has not managed a proper and official 44C more than 3 or 4 times in the same period.

The Thriasion basin where the Athenian suburb of Elefsina is situated has been consistently giving the highest summer temperature readings of Greece,not to mention its unique dry climate which makes it virtually a semi-arid place within the Greek capital!!!

Generally I believe that parts of the Attica basin could potentially be Europe's warmest place in terms of extreme summer temperatures. We know for a fact that the Greek capital ironically is Greece's hottest place during the summer.Check out the dynamics of the Attica basin in terms of extreme high temperatures.You would be suprised.

[Mesogeiakos]

An interesting read on the working procedure of the WMO when it comes to extreme weather records...very interesting indeed

http://wmo.asu.edu/c...cord-assessment

Committee Record Assessment
The World Meteorological Organization (WMO) Commission for Climatology (CCl) decided to appoint a Rapporteur on Climate Extremes to keep an official, unbiased list of world weather extremes. Early in 2006, Dr. Randy Cerveny was named the "Rapporteur of Climate Extremes". At a task meeting of the WMO Open Programme Area Group II (OPAG 2) held in Tarragona Spain on August 20-22, 2006, Dr. Cerveny proposed the creation of a world archive for verifying, certifying and storing world weather extremes.

WMO Commission for Climatology agreed that such an archive was useful and necessary. They agreed that a set of procedures should be established such that existing records are verified and made available to the general public and that future weather extremes records are verified and certified. Consequently, they created a Rapporteur for Extreme Records to carry it out. The Rapporteur (currently Dr. Randy Cerveny) will working closely with the CCl Expert Team on Climate Monitoring in the development of the archive.

When a new record extreme has been reported, the Rapporteur initially views the record extreme and determines if an ad hoc extremes committee should be organized. If called, the ad-hoc committee will provide an expert and unbiased recommendation whether the extreme in question should be added to the list. The committee consists of the President of the Commission for Climatology, the Chair of the CCl Open Programme Area Group (OPAG) on Monitoring and Analysis of Climate Variability and Change (the Rapporteur is part of this OPAG), and a representative of the relevant Member State's NMHS as well as experts in the appropriate meteorological phenomenon and observing instrumentation as required. The committee may also consult with a wide variety of additional experts

[maxcrc1]

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Mesogeiakos - 23/3/2010 17:07

An interesting find...

Please note that the 48.7 temperature in Athens is still being referred as official record within Greece.
Our understanding is that the National Observatory of Athens has recorded 48.7 in Tatoi and the Greek Met Office has recorded 48.0 on the same very day in Tatoi (apart from Elefsina),however the 48.0 has been registered as official since the National Observatory of Athens does not have the right within Greece to register official records etc.
However the 48.7 was indeed recorded by the National Observatory of Athens on 10/7/1977

This is FALSE.I had the officier of HNMS in Greece Mr. Nicolaou checked the temperatures of Tatoi in July 1977 and there was no 48.7C at all.
This 48.7C is a fake of piece of data invented by somebody and spread in Internet.
That is what he said.
You can call them and ask: 210 969-9051

[maxcrc1]

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Big Dave's Gusset - 23/3/2010 18:27

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storm63 - 23/3/2010 18:10

Found this for Italy http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fit.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FClima_italiano

Go to bottom of page and click on Number 8 link

Thanks Ian, trouble is again this is a "secondhand" source being a weather news and views type site and not run by the Italian Met Office, with no link/origin for the data. However, that they do not note the 48.5 °C reading is probably a good indication of its unofficial and unreliable nature. Still they probably felt the need to compile this because it's not easily found (if at all) on the Meteoam site (possibly one has to scrutinise the data for each individual station). The curious thing is a "curiosità" page at http://clima.meteoam.it/curiosita.php which gives world figures, but try finding anything for Italy alone...

Not at all. Catenanuova readings is 100% OFFICIAL AND CORRECT.
Dozens of nearby stations gave similar temperatures during the brutal heat wave of August 1999.
It is a AUTOMATIC REAL TIME station OF SIAS CIRCUIT: therefore it is an official station.
You should know how Italy works in Meteorology: Aeronautica Militare DOESNt MANTAIN ANY station at the moment, but they gave the maintenance of their main circuit to the company ENAV.
This short list of stations is a very small percentage of all italian stations , because most of italian stations are mantained by the local regional meteorological stations.Therefore there are several nets of stations and their data should be checked into these databases.

SIAS is Sicily have very modern stations equipped by automatic stations with modern filters, for example Palermo Observatory has currently a station worth 30000 euros , of better quality of most stations around the world.
In the brutal 1999 heat wave several sicilian station recorded 48C.
That was not the first time 48C was recorded in Sicily, first time was in July 1962 with 48.0C at Paterno (near Catenanuova), than Plano Falzone also recorded 48.2C, and so on...
The "piana di Catania" zone is by far the hottest in Europe during these circustances and in summer maxima average is around 40C much hotter than the zone around Athens.
In August 1999 a pure 30C at 850hpa grabbed Sicily with sirocco winds crossed the central mountains and redescended hot and dry for downslope effect ,compressed hot air lied into the Catania plais where the vulcanic soil further helps strong irradiation.
That was the strongest heat wave ever in Europe, 47C was also recorded in the region of Calabria at Locri.

Catenanuova holds the European highest reliable temperature ever without any doubt.
Moreover i had Catenanuova station checked by a friend of mine who went there 3 years ago....it is at almost 1.9m above the ground,and equipment and screen modern and well mantained.

[maxcrc1]

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Mesogeiakos - 23/3/2010 22:05

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HSEA - 23/3/2010 20:28

Id be surprised if the record was anywhere else than the Seville/Cordoba area of spain; It just looks right, so close to the Sahara, and such a narrow strait of gibraltar. That being said, the Shetlands record (28c) amazingly is marginally warmer than the Scillies (27c), so i guess it could be somewhere surprising like Sicily.

I believe that the Seville temperatures are a myth generally.The wider area of Andalusia near Seville and Cordova do get extremely hot but still we get areas in Sicily and Greece that consistently top Seville's extreme temperatures.


What is more suprising though is that generally people all over Europe have not taken a closer look to the Attica basin and the wider metropolitan Athens area in terms of how hot it can actually get over there.I grew up in Athens and let me tell you....boy,you would not want to be in Athens during July.It is sweltering

The geomorphology of the Attica basin is such that it favors extreme summer temperatures.Athens is protected from the cold winds by 3 huge mountains in the North,East and West (Parnitha,Penteli,Imitos) forming a rain shadow and leaving it totally unprotected from the south thus making the whole of the Greek capital prone to the Saharan winds (which we call in Greece -Livas winds) that can bring temperatures up dramatically.

In fact I can tell you with almost 100% certainty that Athens each and single decade in the 20th century has had higher official extreme summer temperatures compared to Seville.

The last 35 years Athens metropolitan area has registered numerous times official temperatures over 44C in various Athenian suburbs and I am certain that Seville has not managed a proper and official 44C more than 3 or 4 times in the same period.

The Thriasion basin where the Athenian suburb of Elefsina is situated has been consistently giving the highest summer temperature readings of Greece,not to mention its unique dry climate which makes it virtually a semi-arid place within the Greek capital!!!

Generally I believe that parts of the Attica basin could potentially be Europe's warmest place in terms of extreme summer temperatures. We know for a fact that the Greek capital ironically is Greece's hottest place during the summer.Check out the dynamics of the Attica basin in terms of extreme high temperatures.You would be suprised.

I wouldn t say it is a myth. A Myth implies the temperature didn t exist.
They existed, but they were overestimated.
The readings of 51.0C ,50.0C and 49.6C and some others (50.5C at Riodades in Portugal, 48.8C at la puebla de cazalla, 50.0C at berja, 49.0C at Moratalla,etc etc) exist but they were taken under not proper exposure conditions therefore are HIGHLY overestimated and cannot be taken into account.
Those Seville records were dismissed by Spain authority 80 years ago already.
1-the instrument wasn t proper
2-the "Fascistol" screen type inadequate
3-the position on the top of a roof terrible

I estimate the readings were well 3C above the real air temperature.

Regarding the european warmest places

1-Catania plains are unbeatable for the multiple conditions i describe above (sirocco overheated by downslope effect and the vulcanic soil). Temperatures between 47C and 48.5C have been recorded in several occasions.
2- Attica
3-Murcia plains.

During the terrible heat wave of July 1978 temperatures in some parts of Murcia exceeded 47C, but the coverage of the area was not like today's. Hottest parts of Murcia plains had no stations.
I think potentially 48C could have been reached there.We need to wait a new +28C at 850hpa with a subsidence effect like in July 1978.

When we talk about european hottest spots we have to distinguish between hottest in summer averages or hottest under extreme circunstances.
Ok, in the first case the Andalucia plains are surely hotter than Murcia plains and Athens basin.
But in the second case they don t reach the extreme temperatures above 47C than in these two places.
Andalucia is extremely hot in summer but during extreme conditions the orography doesn t allow "aggregated valued" like phoenized winds which are a "pro" in Murcia for example.

The Catania plains are on top in both cases:extreme conditions and average daily summer temperatures (only daily, because the vulcanic soil allows strong irradiation and night temperatures are fresh).

[maxcrc1]

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Big Dave's Gusset - 22/3/2010 13:07

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storm63 - 22/3/2010 12:52

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Big Dave's Gusset - 22/3/2010 12:49

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storm63 - 22/3/2010 11:37 I never get that? Is Russia in Europe? :s

Well certainly the part of Russia west of the Urals is considered as Europe, and Ust'Schugor is in the Komi Republic which is west of the Urals, as is Hoseda-Hard (or Khoseda-Khard) in Nenetskiy which is another of the European coldest places.  Europe includes the far western part of Kazakhstan and the Caucasian countries of Georgia and Azerbaijan (both curiously can also be regarded as Asia) though Armenia is generally regarded as part of the Asiatic landmass.

Cheers Dave, I must still be living in Soviet times   [hehe]

Well I get a bit flustered when I see Turkish "Asia Minor" places such as Ankara, Antalya and Izmir listed under Europe in weatheronline [me?]

And as for the Canary Islands - don't get me started!   666

well, it depends if we talk about geographic Europe or political Europe.
In the first case Cyprus is also part of Asia.
BTW, in the Asian part of Turkey 48.6C was recorded at Cizre during the terrible heat wave of July 2000 (when Syrian and Azerbaijani new national records were broken).
Canary Islands (geographically in Africa) have recorded 47.5C in July 1978 during one of their terrible calima waves at a place called Barranco de Masca.

[maxcrc1]

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maxcrc1 - 10/4/2010 04:30

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Mesogeiakos - 23/3/2010 22:05

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HSEA - 23/3/2010 20:28

Id be surprised if the record was anywhere else than the Seville/Cordoba area of spain; It just looks right, so close to the Sahara, and such a narrow strait of gibraltar. That being said, the Shetlands record (28c) amazingly is marginally warmer than the Scillies (27c), so i guess it could be somewhere surprising like Sicily.

I believe that the Seville temperatures are a myth generally.The wider area of Andalusia near Seville and Cordova do get extremely hot but still we get areas in Sicily and Greece that consistently top Seville's extreme temperatures.


What is more suprising though is that generally people all over Europe have not taken a closer look to the Attica basin and the wider metropolitan Athens area in terms of how hot it can actually get over there.I grew up in Athens and let me tell you....boy,you would not want to be in Athens during July.It is sweltering

The geomorphology of the Attica basin is such that it favors extreme summer temperatures.Athens is protected from the cold winds by 3 huge mountains in the North,East and West (Parnitha,Penteli,Imitos) forming a rain shadow and leaving it totally unprotected from the south thus making the whole of the Greek capital prone to the Saharan winds (which we call in Greece -Livas winds) that can bring temperatures up dramatically.

In fact I can tell you with almost 100% certainty that Athens each and single decade in the 20th century has had higher official extreme summer temperatures compared to Seville.

The last 35 years Athens metropolitan area has registered numerous times official temperatures over 44C in various Athenian suburbs and I am certain that Seville has not managed a proper and official 44C more than 3 or 4 times in the same period.

The Thriasion basin where the Athenian suburb of Elefsina is situated has been consistently giving the highest summer temperature readings of Greece,not to mention its unique dry climate which makes it virtually a semi-arid place within the Greek capital!!!

Generally I believe that parts of the Attica basin could potentially be Europe's warmest place in terms of extreme summer temperatures. We know for a fact that the Greek capital ironically is Greece's hottest place during the summer.Check out the dynamics of the Attica basin in terms of extreme high temperatures.You would be suprised.

I wouldn t say it is a myth. A Myth implies the temperature didn t exist.
They existed, but they were overestimated.
The readings of 51.0C ,50.0C and 49.6C and some others (50.5C at Riodades in Portugal, 48.8C at la puebla de cazalla, 50.0C at berja, 49.0C at Moratalla,etc etc) exist but they were taken under not proper exposure conditions therefore are HIGHLY overestimated and cannot be taken into account.
Those Seville records were dismissed by Spain authority 80 years ago already.
1-the instrument wasn t proper
2-the "Fascistol" screen type inadequate
3-the position on the top of a roof terrible

I estimate the readings were well 3C above the real air temperature.

Regarding the european warmest places

1-Catania plains are unbeatable for the multiple conditions i describe above (sirocco overheated by downslope effect and the vulcanic soil). Temperatures between 47C and 48.5C have been recorded in several occasions.
2- Attica
3-Murcia plains.

During the terrible heat wave of July 1978 temperatures in some parts of Murcia exceeded 47C, but the coverage of the area was not like today's. Hottest parts of Murcia plains had no stations.
I think potentially 48C could have been reached there.We need to wait a new +28C at 850hpa with a subsidence effect like in July 1978.

When we talk about european hottest spots we have to distinguish between hottest in summer averages or hottest under extreme circunstances.
Ok, in the first case the Andalucia plains are surely hotter than Murcia plains and Athens basin.
But in the second case they don t reach the extreme temperatures above 47C than in these two places.
Andalucia is extremely hot in summer but during extreme conditions the orography doesn t allow "aggregated values" like phoenized winds which are a "pro" in Murcia for example.

The Catania plains are on top in both cases:extreme conditions and average daily summer temperatures (only daily, because the vulcanic soil allows strong irradiation and night temperatures are fresh).

[Mesogeiakos]

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maxcrc1 - 10/4/2010 04:11

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Mesogeiakos - 23/3/2010 17:07

An interesting find...

Please note that the 48.7 temperature in Athens is still being referred as official record within Greece.
Our understanding is that the National Observatory of Athens has recorded 48.7 in Tatoi and the Greek Met Office has recorded 48.0 on the same very day in Tatoi (apart from Elefsina),however the 48.0 has been registered as official since the National Observatory of Athens does not have the right within Greece to register official records etc.
However the 48.7 was indeed recorded by the National Observatory of Athens on 10/7/1977

This is FALSE.I had the officier of HNMS in Greece Mr. Nicolaou checked the temperatures of Tatoi in July 1977 and there was no 48.7C at all.
This 48.7C is a fake of piece of data invented by somebody and spread in Internet.
That is what he said.
You can call them and ask: 210 969-9051

I understand that there is ambiguity about this much discused 48.7 but I was always under the impression that NOA recorded the temperature and not HNMS and that after EMY(HNMS) took over in the station this was rounded down for some reason.

I dont know if you know but NOA also had official recording station in Tatoi in 1977 and the reading cames from them but only EMY has the right within Greece to present the country's officials...which is exactly like Italy's 48.5 case I guess