[Mesogeiakos]

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Skizzo - 17/4/2010 23:58

Yeah but islands have special climate really. But I guess Malta would win.

Portugal's winter is boring, probably the least snowy country in Europe if you exclude mediterranean islands.

Welcome Skizzo!!

Probably you are right about Portugal.Out of interest,can you give us the warmest cities in terms of annual average temperatures in Portugal?I dont have many data on Portugal to be honest...

[Poseidon_86]

The southern part of France probably has the most interesting climate in winter.

For example, it snows on the foothills of the central part of the Pyrenees every winter, and it can also get more than 31°C in the shadow ; for example in Saint-Girons (Ariège) in February 1960 : 31.2°C. Most of Spain can't compete with such a record in February (apart from the extreme South of the country).

The northern part of the Pyrenees is more likely to have warm days in winter than the southern part because the Foehn effect is more powerful when the winds come from the South. So, the foothills of the French Pyrenees can have not only the coldest days but also the warmest days than the foothills of the Spanish Pyrenees in winter !

Temperatures over 30°C are, of course, extremely rare, but temperatures between 20 and 25°C from mid-December to mid-February are not so uncommon.

Furthermore, as the mountains ranges are varied in the South of France, the weather can be very different from one side to the other (South-West / South-East).

The northern part of the Riviera (from Nice to Monaco and Menton) very rarely sees frost and when there is frost, it is not strong. Coldest temperature in this section of the coast is about -3°C. It's due to the powerful protection of the high Alps which are very close to the sea.

Inside Provence can see strong frosts (-5 to -10°C), sometimes stronger than those you can see in England and then in the afternoon (if there is sun and no Mistral), you can have between 15 and 18°C. A wide temperature range in the same day !

So, definitely, southern France is nice in winter as it is in summer ! Just between the North Pole and the Equator !

And I didn't talk about the "épisodes cévenols" that occur in Autumn ! Rain can be very very abundant because of the sea which is still warm in September and October.

Weather's very interesting in that part of Europe.

[Mesogeiakos]

Indeed the extreme south of France has a remarkable and very healthy may I add weather.
However in terms of warm averages and extremes I think south France is the weakest contender.The only warm record that I have in my archives for France was the long standing February record of 31.2C which was broken last February by Greece (32.1C)
South France has all the benefits of being Medditerenean without the extremes of Spain,Greece,Italy and Portugal and this makes it very attractive destination especially among Britons.

[Ian Williams]

Just found this on WMO which surprised me a little, Seville has an higher average temperature in the summer than Athens!

Sevilla

Climatological Information

Month Mean Temperature oC Mean Total Precipitation (mm) Mean Number of Precipitation Days Daily Minimum Daily Maximum Jan 5.2 15.9 65 8 Feb 6.7 17.9 54 7 Mar 8.2 21.2 38 6 Apr 10.1 22.7 57 8 May 13.1 26.4 34 6 Jun 16.7 31 13 2 Jul 19.4 35.3 2 0 Aug 19.5 35 6 1 Sep 17.5 31.6 23 3 Oct 13.5 25.6 62 7 Nov 9.3 20.1 84 8 Dec 6.9 16.6 95 9

>> Click here for temperatures in oF

Remarks: * Climatological information is based on monthly averages for the 30-year period 1971-2000. * Mean number of precipitation days = Mean number of days with at least 0.1 mm of precipitation. * Precipitation includes both rain and snow. * Attention: Please note that the averaging period for climatological information and the definition of "Mean Number of Precipitation/Rain Days" quoted in this web site may be different for different countries. Hence, care should be taken when city climatologies are compared.

 Athens

Climatological Information

Month Mean Temperature oC Mean Total Rainfall (mm) Mean Number of Rain Days Daily Minimum Daily Maximum Jan 5.2 12.5 56.9 12.6 Feb 5.4 13.5 46.7 10.4 Mar 6.7 15.7 40.7 10.2 Apr 9.6 20.2 30.8 8.1 May 13.9 26.0 22.7 6.2 Jun 18.2 31.1 10.6 3.7 Jul 20.8 33.5 5.8 1.9 Aug 20.7 33.2 6.0 1.7 Sep 17.3 29.2 13.9 3.3 Oct 13.4 23.3 52.6 7.2 Nov 9.8 18.1 58.3 9.7 Dec 6.8 14.1 69.1 12.1

>> Click here for temperatures in oF

Remarks: * Climatological information is based on monthly averages for the 43-year period 1955-1997. * Attention: Please note that the averaging period for climatological information and the definition of "Mean Number of Precipitation/Rain Days" quoted in this web site may be different for different countries. Hence, care should be taken when city climatologies are compared.

[Ian Williams]

And going by the WMO website and the figures above this gives Athens with an annual mean termp of 17.4C and Seville a degree higher with 18.4C

[Mesogeiakos]

Ian the above data for Athens are from Nea Filadelfia which is the coldest place in winter in Athens which is a northern suburb

The recording stations we have for Athens from the HMNS are 4.
Hellinikon:annual average 18.6
Elefsina: same as above
Tatoi:annual average 17.7
Nea Filadelfia:annual average 17.4

Dont forget that metropolitan Athens is almost 7 times bigger than Seville and spreads all over the Attica basin

For the centre of Athens we only have one station and this is Thision(which is actually on a hill at an altitude of 104m next to Acropolis) and it is run from 1864 by the National Observatory of Athens

According to the NOA the centre of Athens in the last decade has an average max July temp of 35.1C which is the same as Seville...The tropical night temperatures of Athens in the summer are simply unbeatable by any place in Europe.In fact Pireuas (Athens's port) beats even southern crete in terms of tropical nights!!!

I ll give you an example so you will see how complex the Attica basin is: The extreme northern suburbs of Athens (Drosia,Dionisos,Politia,Ekali,Ag.Stefanos) are situated at an altitude of almost 500m and their summer night average temps are about 19.0C while in Pireuas and the extreme southern suburbs(Glyfada,Voula,Vouliagmeni,Vari)they surpass 25C.

You see Attica is extremely diverse...from the extremely hot and semi arid areas of Thriasion valley in Elefsina to the more continental type of climate in Dionisos!!

[Skizzo]

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Mesogeiakos - 18/4/2010 04:31

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Skizzo - 17/4/2010 23:58

Yeah but islands have special climate really. But I guess Malta would win.

Portugal's winter is boring, probably the least snowy country in Europe if you exclude mediterranean islands.

Welcome Skizzo!!

Probably you are right about Portugal.Out of interest,can you give us the warmest cities in terms of annual average temperatures in Portugal?I dont have many data on Portugal to be honest...

It is said that the Douro Valley plain in the interior north is the hottest spot. However there are no stations there currently unforunately :(

From the ones available these days, I guess the warmest cities are: Amareleja (currently holds the highest portuguese temperature), Portel, Alcácer do Sal, Alvalade, Zebreira, Elvas, Mirandela, Avis, Corcuche, Castelo Branco, Portalegre, Évora and Beja. The last 4 are the largest cities of that list. All of these are in the intererior. Portalegre has an interesting climate because of it's high minimum temperatures during Summer. It actually held the highest minimum temperature with over 30ºC until it was overtaken by Faro with 32ºC due to a Saharan winds blowing during summer heatwave in 2004.

Nearer the coast we have stations like Setúbal, Tomar, Santarém, Braga, Leiria, Portimão all reach very high temperatures in the Summer. All of these are considered cities. Lisbon can also be very hot sometimes, it has high averages due to high minimum temperatures too. The city of Porto gets high temperatures with the wind blowing from east causing a huge change in temperature and it can be very warm at night also - especially in the actual city of Porto due to urban island effect.

[Mesogeiakos]

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Skizzo - 19/4/2010 21:00

Quote

Mesogeiakos - 18/4/2010 04:31

Quote

Skizzo - 17/4/2010 23:58

Yeah but islands have special climate really. But I guess Malta would win.

Portugal's winter is boring, probably the least snowy country in Europe if you exclude mediterranean islands.

Welcome Skizzo!!

Probably you are right about Portugal.Out of interest,can you give us the warmest cities in terms of annual average temperatures in Portugal?I dont have many data on Portugal to be honest...

It is said that the Douro Valley plain in the interior north is the hottest spot. However there are no stations there currently unforunately :(

From the ones available these days, I guess the warmest cities are: Amareleja (currently holds the highest portuguese temperature), Portel, Alcácer do Sal, Alvalade, Zebreira, Elvas, Mirandela, Avis, Corcuche, Castelo Branco, Portalegre, Évora and Beja. The last 4 are the largest cities of that list. All of these are in the intererior. Portalegre has an interesting climate because of it's high minimum temperatures during Summer. It actually held the highest minimum temperature with over 30ºC until it was overtaken by Faro with 32ºC due to a Saharan winds blowing during summer heatwave in 2004.

Nearer the coast we have stations like Setúbal, Tomar, Santarém, Braga, Leiria, Portimão all reach very high temperatures in the Summer. All of these are considered cities. Lisbon can also be very hot sometimes, it has high averages due to high minimum temperatures too. The city of Porto gets high temperatures with the wind blowing from east causing a huge change in temperature and it can be very warm at night also - especially in the actual city of Porto due to urban island effect.

Thank you...what about summer and annual average??Which are the hotest on average temps throughout the year and which on the summer??

Btw in Greece in 2007 we had a trully amazing record of 38C minimum night temperature in Paleohora in Crete due to Saharan winds and maximum on that day Paleohora reached 46!! :o

[Skizzo]

That's incredible! (and awful too lol, I hate sticky nights haha). I think Faro reached 45ºC that summer, by far it's highest temperature. Before that I think it never reached 40ºC. It was a unique effect - and something that if ocurred more often could be devestating for tourism.

Yearly average it has to be a) near the coast, b) in the south. So probably Faro, Olhão, Vila Real de Santo António, Tavira, Castro Marim. Out of those I think Faro has old data. But Funchal in Madeira probably has a higher year average though i'm not sure.

For summer, has to be in the Alentejo region. Probably Amareleja though i'm not too familiar with it's minimum temperatures. Elvas, Portalegre, Beja, Castelo Branco, Évora have nice summer averages too.

[Poseidon_86]

I think Portugal is the warmest large country in Europe. Greece can get colder than Portugal in winter 'cause of two facts : Atlantic Ocean is far away (warming effect in winter), cold air masses from northeastern Europe, Turkey and Russia can more easily reach Greece. I speak about northern Greece of course. Northern Portugal's not as cold.

If we have to consider a country as a whole : YEAR = Portugal ; SUMMER = Spain ; WINTER = Portugal.

On the contrary, Athens is hotter than Lisbon, and by far !

[Mesogeiakos]

Quote

Skizzo - 19/4/2010 21:10

That's incredible! (and awful too lol, I hate sticky nights haha). I think Faro reached 45ºC that summer, by far it's highest temperature. Before that I think it never reached 40ºC. It was a unique effect - and something that if ocurred more often could be devestating for tourism.

Yearly average it has to be a) near the coast, b) in the south. So probably Faro, Olhão, Vila Real de Santo António, Tavira, Castro Marim. Out of those I think Faro has old data. But Funchal in Madeira probably has a higher year average though i'm not sure.

For summer, has to be in the Alentejo region. Probably Amareleja though i'm not too familiar with it's minimum temperatures. Elvas, Portalegre, Beja, Castelo Branco, Évora have nice summer averages too.

But do you actually have the average temperatures of these places?Annual averages or summer or anything


Also Madeira plays on a different category as it is not really a part of Europe geographically.

[Mesogeiakos]

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Poseidon_86 - 19/4/2010 22:02

I think Portugal is the warmest large country in Europe. Greece can get colder than Portugal in winter 'cause of two facts : Atlantic Ocean is far away (warming effect in winter), cold air masses from northeastern Europe, Turkey and Russia can more easily reach Greece. I speak about northern Greece of course. Northern Portugal's not as cold.

If we have to consider a country as a whole : YEAR = Portugal ; SUMMER = Spain ; WINTER = Portugal.

On the contrary, Athens is hotter than Lisbon, and by far !

Greece can get extremely cold in NW Macedonia and some parts of Thrace...There we can get temperatures in Florina,Kastoria and Kozani really remarkable for a Med country..We had -27.5 in Ptolemaida as the national record!!!

On the other hand the extreme south east areas such as south-eastern Crete and south east Islands have by far the highest annual average in Europe.

Ierapetra for example stands at 20.1C annual average which I think is comparable to the annual average of Las Palmas in the Canary Isles with 20.2C

As far as Athens goes...well the centre of the city is on the same level with Seville and Cordoba in the summer extremes and definitelly hotter in summer averages both compared to Seville and Cordoba.(Athens 28.0C ,Seville 27.4C,Cordoba 27.0C in July averages)

The problem with Athens is that the temperatures both maximum and minimum in the summer have really increased increadibly the past 20 years.We dont know when this will stop or why this is happening exactly.Numerous studies and scientists from all over Europe are trying to address this issue as Athens is home to 5 million and this needs to be addressed quickly

[Poseidon_86]

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Mesogeiakos - 19/4/2010 23:17

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Poseidon_86 - 19/4/2010 22:02

I think Portugal is the warmest large country in Europe. Greece can get colder than Portugal in winter 'cause of two facts : Atlantic Ocean is far away (warming effect in winter), cold air masses from northeastern Europe, Turkey and Russia can more easily reach Greece. I speak about northern Greece of course. Northern Portugal's not as cold.

If we have to consider a country as a whole : YEAR = Portugal ; SUMMER = Spain ; WINTER = Portugal.

On the contrary, Athens is hotter than Lisbon, and by far !

Greece can get extremely cold in NW Macedonia and some parts of Thrace...There we can get temperatures in Florina,Kastoria and Kozani really remarkable for a Med country..We had -27.5 in Ptolemaida as the national record!!!

On the other hand the extreme south east areas such as south-eastern Crete and south east Islands have by far the highest annual average in Europe.

Ierapetra for example stands at 20.1C annual average which I think is comparable to the annual average of Las Palmas in the Canary Isles with 20.2C

As far as Athens goes...well the centre of the city is on the same level with Seville and Cordoba in the summer extremes and definitelly hotter in summer averages both compared to Seville and Cordoba.(Athens 28.0C ,Seville 27.4C,Cordoba 27.0C in July averages)

The problem with Athens is that the temperatures both maximum and minimum in the summer have really increased increadibly the past 20 years.We dont know when this will stop or why this is happening exactly.Numerous studies and scientists from all over Europe are trying to address this issue as Athens is home to 5 million and this needs to be addressed quickly

Yes, you're right about the warmest spot in Europe (annual average temperature). It is located in Greece. Greece is much more varied in terms of temperature ranges than Portugal.
Greece also has a further South southernmost point than Portugal (34°N vs. 37°N for Portugal).

Great difference between the records in Greece ! -28°C to 48°C ! France : -41°C to 44°C.

I've been in Athens once, indeed, it is suffocating ! Whereas daytime temperatures often go up to 40°C, they just don't go below 25°C sometimes, at night ! So, you can't even cool off after a tough day !

[Mesogeiakos]

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I've been in Athens once, indeed, it is suffocating ! Whereas daytime temperatures often go up to 40°C, they just don't go below 25°C sometimes, at night ! So, you can't even cool off after a tough day !

And this is a true nightmare for the Athenians.Today you can hardly find a house without airconditions and in the summer nights you only hear the awful sound of the airconditions being on 24/7

In fact numerous articles appear on the press from time to time saying that if this situation continues in Athens then we could have an average max of around 40C in the summer and that Athens would be the most heatwave prone city in the world!!!We are entertaining the idea of competing with Kuwait and Saoudi Arabia :o

[Tycho]

Hi all ! (isn't that obligatory for a "newbie") [hi]

Ok, I'm in the Algarve (south Portugal) right now and can only agree with a previous statement saying that "Portuguese winters are - a bit - boring"  [me?]

 Must say that, this year, we experienced a particularly wet winter and spring... On the bright side we had a fabulous warm and dry fall 2009.
Nevertheless I love the area as it's "almost" never too cold nor too hot D-) Would add that, as far as I'm concerned, "too hot" isn't a real problem, just grab a small barrel of very good local brew (Sagres) and spend your night/days in the pool [s]

As for the temperatures data for "warmest average city in Europe" you are looking for here is a good site with worldwide (by city) annual/monthly averages etc -> http://www.weatherbase.com/ Have a look at it ! [y]

Not all cities are in the list but you'll probably find a city close to the spot that you're interested in.

All the best !

Some more links :

1 - http://www.wundergro...uSelect=WEATHER

2 - http://www.almancil-weather.com/

[Mesogeiakos]

Tycho welcome!!Can you help us with the mainland portuguese averages please?Which is the warmest city on average in mainland Portugal and how much is its average?Do u happen to have any data?

[Tycho]

Have you checked my links ?

I do not have any personally acquired data yet, I plan to buy a good weather station the day I definitively move here.

Best I can say is : have a look at the links I previously posted as well as on this this one witch has a history (link on left side of the page) of several year, the official Portuguese weather service (open "climate" - on top of the page) also has some good info with publicly available graphics, analysis, maps, anomaly, averages etc.

I think I can say that Faro and VRS Antonio (east of Faro, on the Spanish border) is the warmest part, that's also my personal observation and what local people say. West Algarve (from Sagres and up north) is not as warm but is still nice.

One more thing, I'm originally from Switzerland and plan to move here because of climate (and my Portuguese wife :% ). We had enough of Swiss winters around Geneva (+/- 11 months/year... :o ) and we were looking for the warmest part/best possible climate in Europe to settle down, think we found the right spot here (in Almancil, close to Faro).

Final thoughts, it's fine here as long as you speak decent Portuguese, closely connect with the locals and "aren't too obviously from the UK". In private most locals acknowledge they really don't like Brits too much around here... They say there are too much of them who absolutely do refuse to integrate/learn Portuguese, try to exploit locals etc... Must say it's not completely wrong... :%

Don't hesitate to ask if you guy's think I can help any further.

[Mesogeiakos]

Quote

Ian Williams - 18/4/2010 15:08

Just found this on WMO which surprised me a little, Seville has an higher average temperature in the summer than Athens!

Sevilla

Climatological Information

Month Mean Temperature oC Mean Total Precipitation (mm) Mean Number of Precipitation Days Daily Minimum Daily Maximum Jan 5.2 15.9 65 8 Feb 6.7 17.9 54 7 Mar 8.2 21.2 38 6 Apr 10.1 22.7 57 8 May 13.1 26.4 34 6 Jun 16.7 31 13 2 Jul 19.4 35.3 2 0 Aug 19.5 35 6 1 Sep 17.5 31.6 23 3 Oct 13.5 25.6 62 7 Nov 9.3 20.1 84 8 Dec 6.9 16.6 95 9

>> Click here for temperatures in oF

Remarks: * Climatological information is based on monthly averages for the 30-year period 1971-2000. * Mean number of precipitation days = Mean number of days with at least 0.1 mm of precipitation. * Precipitation includes both rain and snow. * Attention: Please note that the averaging period for climatological information and the definition of "Mean Number of Precipitation/Rain Days" quoted in this web site may be different for different countries. Hence, care should be taken when city climatologies are compared.

 Athens

Climatological Information

Month Mean Temperature oC Mean Total Rainfall (mm) Mean Number of Rain Days Daily Minimum Daily Maximum Jan 5.2 12.5 56.9 12.6 Feb 5.4 13.5 46.7 10.4 Mar 6.7 15.7 40.7 10.2 Apr 9.6 20.2 30.8 8.1 May 13.9 26.0 22.7 6.2 Jun 18.2 31.1 10.6 3.7 Jul 20.8 33.5 5.8 1.9 Aug 20.7 33.2 6.0 1.7 Sep 17.3 29.2 13.9 3.3 Oct 13.4 23.3 52.6 7.2 Nov 9.8 18.1 58.3 9.7 Dec 6.8 14.1 69.1 12.1

>> Click here for temperatures in oF

Remarks: * Climatological information is based on monthly averages for the 43-year period 1955-1997. * Attention: Please note that the averaging period for climatological information and the definition of "Mean Number of Precipitation/Rain Days" quoted in this web site may be different for different countries. Hence, care should be taken when city climatologies are compared.

Ian check the averages for the centre of Athens in July according to the published data of the National Observatory of Athens.

2001
Average maximum:36.1°C
Average minimum:24.9°C

2002
35.2°C
25.4°C

2003
35.2°C
25.1°C

2004
34.8°C
24.6°C

2005
35.1°C
24.7°C

2006
33.4°C
23.9°C

2007
36.5°C
25.9°C

2008
34.7°C
24.8°C

2009
34.9°C
25.0°C

Average maximum: 35.1°C
Average minimum: 24.9°C

Note that Thision station is situated at a top of a hill at an altitude of 104m next to the Acropolis and without any surrounding buildings around it.
Those are the only data available from NOA's site regarding Thision covering each month from 2001 onwards.

This just goes to show the complexity of the Attica basin and the extreme heat it gets on a station that is situated only 15km off the coast and at an altitude of 104m....If you want me I can post the averages for January as well

http://cirrus.meteo....bolam/index.htm (monthly bulletins)

[BUTTERFLY]

"Just found this on WMO which surprised me a little, Seville has an higher average temperature in the summer than Athens!"

According to the calculations I have just done, although Seville is slightly warmer than Athens in July & August, it is cooler in June, and overall for the 3 months, its mean of 26.175 deg. C. is very slightly less than Athens at 26.267 deg. C. These figures are not just a simple average of the 3 months, but allow for the fact that June has 30 days and July and August 31.

The mean for June, July and August at each is Seville 23.85 deg. C, 27.35 deg. C. and 27.25 deg. C., and Athen 24.65 deg. C., 27.15 deg. C. and 26.95 deg. C., respectively. Athens has warmer nights in each month, and Seville warmer days in July-August.

In an early (1950s) Atlas in the Encyclopaedia Brittanica, there are isotherms showing July mean temperatures of 80 deg. F. (c. 26.7 deg. C.) centred around a large part of inland Spain, Greece and Turkey, and it appears (surprisingly) also a part of central Italy, which I would have thought less likely. These are REDUCED TO SEA LEVEL. Madrid for example lies at a considerable altititude (667 metres) so mean temperatures there in summer probably need to be increased by around 4 deg. C. to reduce these to sea level for proper comparison with other areas.

[Mesogeiakos]

Quote

BUTTERFLY - 2/5/2010 12:27

"Just found this on WMO which surprised me a little, Seville has an higher average temperature in the summer than Athens!"

According to the calculations I have just done, although Seville is slightly warmer than Athens in July & August, it is cooler in June, and overall for the 3 months, its mean of 26.175 deg. C. is very slightly less than Athens at 26.267 deg. C. These figures are not just a simple average of the 3 months, but allow for the fact that June has 30 days and July and August 31.

The mean for June, July and August at each is Seville 23.85 deg. C, 27.35 deg. C. and 27.25 deg. C., and Athen 24.65 deg. C., 27.15 deg. C. and 26.95 deg. C., respectively. Athens has warmer nights in each month, and Seville warmer days in July-August.

In an early (1950s) Atlas in the Encyclopaedia Brittanica, there are isotherms showing July mean temperatures of 80 deg. F. (c. 26.7 deg. C.) centred around a large part of inland Spain, Greece and Turkey, and it appears (surprisingly) also a part of central Italy, which I would have thought less likely. These are REDUCED TO SEA LEVEL. Madrid for example lies at a considerable altititude (667 metres) so mean temperatures there in summer probably need to be increased by around 4 deg. C. to reduce these to sea level for proper comparison with other areas.

Thank you!! But I am not sure why most of the Europeans are so suprised when they see that Athens is indeed warmer that Seville in the summer on average?

This is well known inside Greece. Our tropical nights render Athens warmer on average during the summer compared to any other part of Europe (Cordoba included)

Do you have a link or any reference that I can verify that Athens is warmer than Seville during the summer on average?