[Ian Williams]

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ldavidcooke - 21/3/2011 17:02 Hey Ian, If air/ocean currents and altitude are truly similar it may be worth discontinuing. However, in my brief review, it appears different enough. As to cooler without an adjustment, I would simply add two columns "min. time , "max. time", keeps the data pure. I repeat all i/o info. is valuable, just it is more important to have raw rather then modulated data even if it seems cooler, at least it is a measured value. Cheers! Dave

Hey Dave, What is it with you? Tongue in cheek, you are like my inner conscience, was thinking the same then thought is it worth keeping the data then you pop up and come out with what was bothering me  [hehe] [hehe]

I am going to go back to raw data, the only bone of contention is the spanish stations when they have a minimum outside the parameters of 2100hrs to 0900hrs i have to use the hourly minimum in that time range with the exception of a few that are synop stations on

http://www.ogimet.com/gsynres.phtml.en

And i can decipher the synop codes, well in the present format, as PJB has informed us in a separate thread, the synop codes are living on their 10th life and is about to be replaced, grrrrrrrrrr.

Thanks Dave, The voice of reasoning, appreciate it  [y]

[ldavidcooke]

Hey Ian,

Sorry for sticking my nose into something that had little to do with me or my research. I guess I just have a thing for how to handle data that does not fit well with most forms of analysis. Rather then measure the peaks I prefer to measure the slope of change.

In that case, the value at a given time is more valuable then the peak, as it tells us the amount of decay or gain in temperature that occurs over time. If we then include hygroscopic content and take into consideration the barometric influence on the temperature we get a better picture of the stations conditions.

Hence, it is more important to me to know that on a specific date that the temperature from a previous peak level fell to a measured point at a given time. Knowing this, has a greater effect on weather then the peak reading does, as the peak tells us the value for a relatively short time period of the day, where as the change in temperature tells us much more about the average conditions.

(IE: If it was at a noted higher value earlier then normal and the water vapor was high it would suggest much of the heat may have been water vapor borne. On the flip side if the peak was earlier then normal and the water vapor was low it would suggest most of the heat may have been either adiabatic (Failing air increases in heat content) or if the heat were due to solar gain. Adiabatic heat being higher indicates that the initial value must have been warmer or had fallen from a greater height. Solar gain would suggest that the heat was due to clear skies, where low aerosols or water vapor had anything to do with the gain. This tells us a lot about the weather and its' influences.)

In short peaks and averages tell us if we have broken a record or not, slopes between peak values tells us about the weather... Generally, I expect most here are concerned about the weather, not records.

Thanks for tolerating my thoughts, I will step away from this thread. I am confident you will do well without my input.

Cheers!
Dave

[Llevant]

Here in Barcelona March 2011 is the rainiest ever (at least since 1851). Until today the total amount at the city centre observatory are 204,2 mm. The most important fact is the torrentially, very rare in this season: an extraordinary thunderstorm (not seen before in March) amounted 94 mm the 15th March (50 mm in one hour). Three days before a mediterranean low amounted 67 mm in 18 hours. So, in two days 162 mm.

[Ian Williams]

Now I know where all of England and Wales rainfall has gone! I think the problem has been our blocking high over us, sending Low pressure systems either to the north of us or to the south, and of course when this happens with the warmer sea temps  around the med, any Low pressure systems produces much more moisture and heat, hence your heavy rainfall, i think South of France had similar problems around the same time too.

[Ian Williams]

Very warm across inland Andalucia today Seville got to at least 25.7C on the hourly obs.

Heres the latest up until the end of 23rd March, i have included the highest maximums so far to date and the highest minimums too.

[Ian Williams]

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Ferreiro - 24/3/2011 22:16 Athens Thiseio surprisingly has a higher mean minimum temperature than Athens Hellenikon. It is an anomaly, since Thiseo is several miles inland. Helleniko instead is on the coast. In winter the coastal weather stations always have much higher minimum than the inland weather stations. I guess the fact that Thiseio is in the geographic center of a big city explains this anomaly. Is the effect known as urban heat island. On the other hand, I bet Malaga Port and perhaps Fuengirola will end the month with a temperature above 16ºC. Regards!

I think the reason for this is when Greece had their very cold spell earlier in the month Athens Thiseio is 110m above sea level so during the night lower stations in and around Athens were much colder as you probably know cold air sinks and warm air rises. Of course if they (Athens) had, had a cloudy month then i would of thought Hellinikon to have milder nights.

Below is the latest table up to and including the 25th March

 

March means in and around the Med 1st to 25th March 2011 (Spanish stations pale yellow background, Greece`s in pale blue)

[Mesogeiakos]

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Ferreiro - 24/3/2011 22:16


On the other hand, I bet Malaga Port and perhaps Fuengirola will end the month with a temperature above 16ºC.

Regards!

And imagine if Karpathos did not register the 4.4C during the cold spell what would it's mean temp be!It has already passed 14C mean.I am sure if Greece did not have the cold spell by now Karpathos would be higher than 16C and the same goes for South Crete.

None the less from now onwards the minimums in Greece will be suffocating and by May Greece will have the highest annual means in Europe for the entire 5 month period by far!Then again in the summer Andalusia will have to deal with Attica!Tough job for Spain ahead

[Ian Williams]

Yes! While I have been a little surprised at how mild Malaga/Fuengirola and Estepona have been, especially their minimums, i`m pretty confident the likes of Karpathos and Palaiohora will be warmer than those top 3 for the month of April, before Attica and inland Andalucia blows them all away come May onwards 666 [hehe]

[Ian Williams]

Just spotted an error for Ierapetra, when cross referencing it with the other thread. Ierapetras mean so far is 13.56C

Mean Max 15.90C
Mean Min 11.23C

I had accidentally given Ierapetra a max of 10.6C and a min of 10.6C on the 15th when the max should of read 17.2C, hence the difference, so Ierapetra is in fact 5th

[Ian Williams]

If Gibraltar was in the table above it would be 3rd, current mean for there is 14.42C for March 1st to 25th

[Mesogeiakos]

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My bet is: April will be warmer on the coast of Malaga. Since May or June is when Crete can be hotter but only slightly. But again, starting in November will be warmer at Malaga`s coast. Winter is clearly warmer in the southwest of Europe than in the southeast. The explanation is simple: the southwest is much farther away from Russia.
Regards!

This is absolutely wrong and only people who are not aware at all the climate of Greece might believe this.Off course SouthEast Europe is warmer than any area in the winter as it has been shown by the longterm mean time series.Russia has nothing to do with extreme southeast Greece in the winter.For example again Karpathos was the warmest area of the continent in January.

I bet that in April Greece will not only be hotter but there will be a significant difference since it is when the Greek Isles start to get the suffocating minimums.

[Mesogeiakos]

Also an example of how cold this March has been for Greece we see that last year the mean March temp for Ierapetra was 15.7C and 16.2C for Palaiohora.This March cold snap was the COLDEST in Greece for the whole winter

http://penteli.meteo...ra/NOAAPRYR.TXT
http://penteli.meteo...ra/NOAAPRYR.TXT

[Ian Williams]

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Ferreiro - 27/3/2011 14:17

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Mesogeiakos - 27/3/2011 05:38

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My bet is: April will be warmer on the coast of Malaga. Since May or June is when Crete can be hotter but only slightly. But again, starting in November will be warmer at Malaga`s coast. Winter is clearly warmer in the southwest of Europe than in the southeast. The explanation is simple: the southwest is much farther away from Russia. Regards!

This is absolutely wrong and only people who are not aware at all the climate of Greece might believe this.Off course SouthEast Europe is warmer than any area in the winter as it has been shown by the longterm mean time series.Russia has nothing to do with extreme southeast Greece in the winter.For example again Karpathos was the warmest area of the continent in January. I bet that in April Greece will not only be hotter but there will be a significant difference since it is when the Greek Isles start to get the suffocating minimums.

I guess you know the average temperatures of all weather stations in Europe. What was the average temperature in Port of Malaga, Fuengirola, Estepona, Alboran or Adra in January? Thanks.

This is one of the problems Ferreiro, I assume Malaga Port, Fuengirola and Estepona and a few others are new stations, because there is no past data for them. Not even on AEMET site. It will be interesting to see how all this pans out over the coming months. Pit is right when he says that Greece had a prolonged cold spell, and for me it is not whether Malaga area is warmer than say Karpathos or Crete in the winter its overall. One winter does not make a climate, the same as one year does not. 

As far as i know Karpathos and Palaiohora and Ierapetra, probably followed by Seville are the hottest places in Europe annually. Malaga area will struggle in the summer compared to the likes of Seville and Cordoba and Andujar and most of Athens. Its a bit like my Warmest place in the United kingdom, with the St Mary`s on the Isles of Scilly so far the warmest place since September 1st due to its sea influences over winter and early spring, but they will struggle now its warming up.

Ok do you have the January means for 

Port of Malaga, Fuengirola, Estepona, Alboran or Adra ?

[Mesogeiakos]

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Ferreiro - 27/3/2011 14:54

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Ian Williams - 27/3/2011 14:40

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Ferreiro - 27/3/2011 14:17

Quote

Mesogeiakos - 27/3/2011 05:38

Quote

My bet is: April will be warmer on the coast of Malaga. Since May or June is when Crete can be hotter but only slightly. But again, starting in November will be warmer at Malaga`s coast. Winter is clearly warmer in the southwest of Europe than in the southeast. The explanation is simple: the southwest is much farther away from Russia. Regards!

This is absolutely wrong and only people who are not aware at all the climate of Greece might believe this.Off course SouthEast Europe is warmer than any area in the winter as it has been shown by the longterm mean time series.Russia has nothing to do with extreme southeast Greece in the winter.For example again Karpathos was the warmest area of the continent in January. I bet that in April Greece will not only be hotter but there will be a significant difference since it is when the Greek Isles start to get the suffocating minimums.

I guess you know the average temperatures of all weather stations in Europe. What was the average temperature in Port of Malaga, Fuengirola, Estepona, Alboran or Adra in January? Thanks.

This is one of the problems Ferreiro, I assume Malaga Port, Fuengirola and Estepona and a few others are new stations, because there is no past data for them. Not even on AEMET site. It will be interesting to see how all this pans out over the coming months. Pit is right when he says that Greece had a prolonged cold spell, and for me it is not whether Malaga area is warmer than say Karpathos or Crete in the winter its overall. One winter does not make a climate, the same as one year does not. 

As far as i know Karpathos and Palaiohora and Ierapetra, probably followed by Seville are the hottest places in Europe annually. Malaga area will struggle in the summer compared to the likes of Seville and Cordoba and Andujar and most of Athens. Its a bit like my Warmest place in the United kingdom, with the St Mary`s on the Isles of Scilly so far the warmest place since September 1st due to its sea influences over winter and early spring, but they will struggle now its warming up.

Ok do you have the January means for 

Port of Malaga, Fuengirola, Estepona, Alboran or Adra ?

Cold waves are part of the climate of southern Greece. Almost every year there is one. This is due to its proximity to Balkans and Russia. For that reason it snows in Athens every two or three years. At least it has been so in this decade. Malaga has only snowed twice. In 1882 and 1954. 67 years since the last snowfall!!!
AEMET not publish monthly temperatures, so we do not have average temperatures of the Spanish stations in January. That is why I dare not say which was the warmest place in Europe in January. Not with so few data.

Sevilla will be warmer than Malaga Port in the summer? probably
Crete and Karpathos will be hotter than Malaga coast in summer? I am not a soothsayer. All I know is that with official data this February and March 2011 the coast of Malaga has been much warmer than the Greek islands. And Malaga is on the continent!!!!
I'll see you next month.
Regards!!!!

Cold waves are a part of the climate of SOUTHERN GREECE?

This is again absolutely wrong!The continentality of Greece through the Balkans only affects specific parts of Greece!SOUTH and SOUTH EAST Greece is almost never affected and if it is hardly a negative temperature is being registered.The absolute minimum temperatures of coastal Crete are higher than any part of Europe.For example Rethymnon in the North Coast of Crete has never seen air frost with an absolute minimum of 0.8C and Ierapetra has also never experienced air frost.

Balkans and Russia has ZERO relation with extreme south Greece.The mean temps of extreme south Greece are BY FAR the highest in Europe as we know from the HNMS data.For February you dont know anything since you only have 18 days of data and for March Greece has done extremely well given the COLD SNAP which was the coldest of the WINTER.

What is definite is that year long temps will see Greece be the warmest area of Europe and the port of Malaga can simply not compete from now on!April will see SE Greece being a definitive winner,its simple maths

[Ian Williams]

OK Lets have a look at the facts and figures for the warmest places in winter from HNMS and AEMET in what figures we do have. Athens is definitely colder in winter than coastal Andalucia. However the warmest places in Europe for winter with what figures we do have belongs to Ierapetra, now this is not to say that Malaga Port is colder because we do not have the figures for there, equally we do not have figures for what is considered maybe even warmer and thats Karpathos, and possibly Palaiohora.

We would have to do this study over a few years, what with Malaga Port, Fuengirola and Estepona being new automated stations, along with Greeces new ones for Palaiohora and Karpathos

Winter Mean temps official figures from their countries websites

Ierapetra............13.43C

Almeria...............13.13C

Malaga Airport......12.53C

Rhodes (Rodos)....12.47C

Huelva.................12.23C

Heraklion..............11.70C

Sevilla..................11.53C

Athens Hellinikon...10.97C

[Ian Williams]

Warm again across med-europe. Estepona is currently warmest today at 1700 local time with 24.7C. Athens enjoying temps around 21C and Andulucia in general around 21 or 22C. Crete approx around 18C, Palermo has been up to at least 21C whilst Luqa on Malta has seen 19C, and Karpathos at least 18.4C

Table below for March to the 27th