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Mediterranean Europe 2011

#21 User is online   Ian Williams 

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Posted --

AEMET has Fuengirola`s min temp as 15.9C but this was at 2359hr on the 18th, its minimum hourly temp until 0900hrs on the 18th was 16.8C so i deducted 0.5C. I dont get AEMET, Estepona just because it misses one hourly reading in a 24hr period it does not release its min and max temps. Estepona`s hourly max was 23.5C so have added 0.5C to make it 24.0C and likewise have deducted 0.5C from its minimum
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#22 User is online   Ian Williams 

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Posted --

Malaga Port was the warmest on the 19th with a mean of 18.9C, Coldest from the group was Tatoi with a mean of 12.4C.

Andujar had the hottest max not just from this group but in Europe with a Max of 28.0C

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#23 User is online   ldavidcooke 

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Posted --

Hey Ian,

In your posting from Sat. (two above this one), so by your adjustment you were 0.25 higher for one and 0.25 lower on the other, so what difference did it make to tbe record? For the site it artifically injected uncertainty into the data set. For the region the modification did not change a thing. If both min. and max. were missing the difference would be net zero. So at best you are net zero most of the time you "modulate" the known data and 1/2 the time you may understate the average by 0.25C (which should be either 0.2 or 0.3 as your temperature reading is only to tenths, not hundredths of a degree.)

This then begs the question of, "Is it really necessary to modulate the data? ". Also, if you have not marked all the ones modified how would you return to the raw data record? How would you recover the hour of max./min. observation, if you do not have a daily min./max. value?

Cheers!
Dave
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#24 User is online   Ian Williams 

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Posted --

Hi Dave,
I am thinking of scrapping Estepona, as AEMET the Spanish meto, hasnt released any max or mins since the 13th, now my crude method was only going to be for the odd day here and there, thus not really altering the mean temps over a long period, however if i were not to use the method at all Esteponas mean with what max min data i do have (up to the 13th) would be significantly lower than it is with or without making the 0.5C adjustments. To be honest its not a major deal as both Malaga Port and Fuengirola are quite close to Estepona and similar in temperature anyway.
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#25 User is online   ldavidcooke 

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Posted --

Hey Ian,

If air/ocean currents and altitude are truly similar it may be worth discontinuing. However, in my brief review, it appears different enough. As to cooler without an adjustment, I would simply add two columns "min. time , "max. time", keeps the data pure. I repeat all i/o info. is valuable, just it is more important to have raw rather then modulated data even if it seems cooler, at least it is a measured value.

Cheers!
Dave
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#26 User is online   Ian Williams 

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Posted --

Quote

ldavidcooke - 21/3/2011 17:02 Hey Ian, If air/ocean currents and altitude are truly similar it may be worth discontinuing. However, in my brief review, it appears different enough. As to cooler without an adjustment, I would simply add two columns "min. time , "max. time", keeps the data pure. I repeat all i/o info. is valuable, just it is more important to have raw rather then modulated data even if it seems cooler, at least it is a measured value. Cheers! Dave

Hey Dave, What is it with you? Tongue in cheek, you are like my inner conscience, was thinking the same then thought is it worth keeping the data then you pop up and come out with what was bothering me  [hehe] [hehe]

I am going to go back to raw data, the only bone of contention is the spanish stations when they have a minimum outside the parameters of 2100hrs to 0900hrs i have to use the hourly minimum in that time range with the exception of a few that are synop stations on

http://www.ogimet.com/gsynres.phtml.en

And i can decipher the synop codes, well in the present format, as PJB has informed us in a separate thread, the synop codes are living on their 10th life and is about to be replaced, grrrrrrrrrr.

Thanks Dave, The voice of reasoning, appreciate it  [y]


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#27 User is online   ldavidcooke 

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Posted --

Hey Ian,

Sorry for sticking my nose into something that had little to do with me or my research. I guess I just have a thing for how to handle data that does not fit well with most forms of analysis. Rather then measure the peaks I prefer to measure the slope of change.

In that case, the value at a given time is more valuable then the peak, as it tells us the amount of decay or gain in temperature that occurs over time. If we then include hygroscopic content and take into consideration the barometric influence on the temperature we get a better picture of the stations conditions.

Hence, it is more important to me to know that on a specific date that the temperature from a previous peak level fell to a measured point at a given time. Knowing this, has a greater effect on weather then the peak reading does, as the peak tells us the value for a relatively short time period of the day, where as the change in temperature tells us much more about the average conditions.

(IE: If it was at a noted higher value earlier then normal and the water vapor was high it would suggest much of the heat may have been water vapor borne. On the flip side if the peak was earlier then normal and the water vapor was low it would suggest most of the heat may have been either adiabatic (Failing air increases in heat content) or if the heat were due to solar gain. Adiabatic heat being higher indicates that the initial value must have been warmer or had fallen from a greater height. Solar gain would suggest that the heat was due to clear skies, where low aerosols or water vapor had anything to do with the gain. This tells us a lot about the weather and its' influences.)

In short peaks and averages tell us if we have broken a record or not, slopes between peak values tells us about the weather... Generally, I expect most here are concerned about the weather, not records.

Thanks for tolerating my thoughts, I will step away from this thread. I am confident you will do well without my input.

Cheers!
Dave
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#28 User is offline   Llevant 

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Posted --

Here in Barcelona March 2011 is the rainiest ever (at least since 1851). Until today the total amount at the city centre observatory are 204,2 mm. The most important fact is the torrentially, very rare in this season: an extraordinary thunderstorm (not seen before in March) amounted 94 mm the 15th March (50 mm in one hour). Three days before a mediterranean low amounted 67 mm in 18 hours. So, in two days 162 mm.
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#29 User is online   Ian Williams 

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Posted --

Now I know where all of England and Wales rainfall has gone! I think the problem has been our blocking high over us, sending Low pressure systems either to the north of us or to the south, and of course when this happens with the warmer sea temps  around the med, any Low pressure systems produces much more moisture and heat, hence your heavy rainfall, i think South of France had similar problems around the same time too.
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#30 User is online   Ian Williams 

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Posted --

Very warm across inland Andalucia today Seville got to at least 25.7C on the hourly obs.

Heres the latest up until the end of 23rd March, i have included the highest maximums so far to date and the highest minimums too.



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#31 Guest_Ferreiro_*

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Athens Thiseio surprisingly has a higher mean minimum temperature than Athens Hellenikon. It is an anomaly, since Thiseo is several miles inland. Helleniko instead is on the coast. In winter the coastal weather stations always have much higher minimum than the inland weather stations. I guess the fact that Thiseio is in the geographic center of a big city explains this anomaly. Is the effect known as urban heat island.

On the other hand, I bet Malaga Port and perhaps Fuengirola will end the month with a temperature above 16C.

Regards!

#32 User is online   Ian Williams 

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Posted --

Quote

Ferreiro - 24/3/2011 22:16 Athens Thiseio surprisingly has a higher mean minimum temperature than Athens Hellenikon. It is an anomaly, since Thiseo is several miles inland. Helleniko instead is on the coast. In winter the coastal weather stations always have much higher minimum than the inland weather stations. I guess the fact that Thiseio is in the geographic center of a big city explains this anomaly. Is the effect known as urban heat island. On the other hand, I bet Malaga Port and perhaps Fuengirola will end the month with a temperature above 16ºC. Regards!

I think the reason for this is when Greece had their very cold spell earlier in the month Athens Thiseio is 110m above sea level so during the night lower stations in and around Athens were much colder as you probably know cold air sinks and warm air rises. Of course if they (Athens) had, had a cloudy month then i would of thought Hellinikon to have milder nights.

Below is the latest table up to and including the 25th March

 

March means in and around the Med 1st to 25th March 2011 (Spanish stations pale yellow background, Greece`s in pale blue)


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#33 User is offline   Mesogeiakos 

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Posted --

Quote

Ferreiro - 24/3/2011 22:16


On the other hand, I bet Malaga Port and perhaps Fuengirola will end the month with a temperature above 16C.

Regards!


And imagine if Karpathos did not register the 4.4C during the cold spell what would it's mean temp be!It has already passed 14C mean.I am sure if Greece did not have the cold spell by now Karpathos would be higher than 16C and the same goes for South Crete.

None the less from now onwards the minimums in Greece will be suffocating and by May Greece will have the highest annual means in Europe for the entire 5 month period by far!Then again in the summer Andalusia will have to deal with Attica!Tough job for Spain ahead
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#34 User is online   Ian Williams 

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Posted --

Yes! While I have been a little surprised at how mild Malaga/Fuengirola and Estepona have been, especially their minimums, i`m pretty confident the likes of Karpathos and Palaiohora will be warmer than those top 3 for the month of April, before Attica and inland Andalucia blows them all away come May onwards 666 [hehe]
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#35 Guest_Ferreiro_*

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Posted --

Quote

Ian Williams - 26/3/2011 14:19

Quote

Ferreiro - 24/3/2011 22:16 Athens Thiseio surprisingly has a higher mean minimum temperature than Athens Hellenikon. It is an anomaly, since Thiseo is several miles inland. Helleniko instead is on the coast. In winter the coastal weather stations always have much higher minimum than the inland weather stations. I guess the fact that Thiseio is in the geographic center of a big city explains this anomaly. Is the effect known as urban heat island. On the other hand, I bet Malaga Port and perhaps Fuengirola will end the month with a temperature above 16C. Regards!

I think the reason for this is when Greece had their very cold spell earlier in the month Athens Thiseio is 110m above sea level so during the night lower stations in and around Athens were much colder as you probably know cold air sinks and warm air rises. Of course if they (Athens) had, had a cloudy month then i would of thought Hellinikon to have milder nights.

Below is the latest table up to and including the 25th March

March means in and around the Med 1st to 25th March 2011 (Spanish stations pale yellow background, Greece`s in pale blue)



Yes, I know that effect, but then Gatzi, very close to Thiseio, but at a lower altitude, should be colder than Thiseio, but surprisingly it`s mean minimum temperature is higher than Thiseio and even than Hellenikon.
http://penteli.meteo...hens/NOAAMO.TXT

I think Thiseio suffers two effects: thermal inversion and urban heat island. Instead, Gatzi, Hellenikon and Malaga Puerto only suffer the effect of urban heat island.

My bet is: April will be warmer on the coast of Malaga. Since May or June is when Crete can be hotter but only slightly. But again, starting in November will be warmer at Malaga`s coast. Winter is clearly warmer in the southwest of Europe than in the southeast. The explanation is simple: the southwest is much farther away from Russia.
Regards!




#36 User is online   Ian Williams 

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Posted --

Just spotted an error for Ierapetra, when cross referencing it with the other thread. Ierapetras mean so far is 13.56C

Mean Max 15.90C
Mean Min 11.23C

I had accidentally given Ierapetra a max of 10.6C and a min of 10.6C on the 15th when the max should of read 17.2C, hence the difference, so Ierapetra is in fact 5th
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#37 User is online   Ian Williams 

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Posted --

If Gibraltar was in the table above it would be 3rd, current mean for there is 14.42C for March 1st to 25th
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#38 User is offline   Mesogeiakos 

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Posted --

Quote


My bet is: April will be warmer on the coast of Malaga. Since May or June is when Crete can be hotter but only slightly. But again, starting in November will be warmer at Malaga`s coast. Winter is clearly warmer in the southwest of Europe than in the southeast. The explanation is simple: the southwest is much farther away from Russia.
Regards!




This is absolutely wrong and only people who are not aware at all the climate of Greece might believe this.Off course SouthEast Europe is warmer than any area in the winter as it has been shown by the longterm mean time series.Russia has nothing to do with extreme southeast Greece in the winter.For example again Karpathos was the warmest area of the continent in January.

I bet that in April Greece will not only be hotter but there will be a significant difference since it is when the Greek Isles start to get the suffocating minimums.
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#39 User is offline   Mesogeiakos 

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Posted --

Also an example of how cold this March has been for Greece we see that last year the mean March temp for Ierapetra was 15.7C and 16.2C for Palaiohora.This March cold snap was the COLDEST in Greece for the whole winter

http://penteli.meteo...ra/NOAAPRYR.TXT
http://penteli.meteo...ra/NOAAPRYR.TXT

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#40 Guest_Ferreiro_*

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Posted --

Quote

Mesogeiakos - 27/3/2011 05:38

Quote


My bet is: April will be warmer on the coast of Malaga. Since May or June is when Crete can be hotter but only slightly. But again, starting in November will be warmer at Malaga`s coast. Winter is clearly warmer in the southwest of Europe than in the southeast. The explanation is simple: the southwest is much farther away from Russia.
Regards!




This is absolutely wrong and only people who are not aware at all the climate of Greece might believe this.Off course SouthEast Europe is warmer than any area in the winter as it has been shown by the longterm mean time series.Russia has nothing to do with extreme southeast Greece in the winter.For example again Karpathos was the warmest area of the continent in January.

I bet that in April Greece will not only be hotter but there will be a significant difference since it is when the Greek Isles start to get the suffocating minimums.


I guess you know the average temperatures of all weather stations in Europe.
What was the average temperature in Port of Malaga, Fuengirola, Estepona, Alboran or Adra in January? Thanks.

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