[Dave Hancox]

Put this in its own thread for Pete Scott make it stand out a bit more.

[Dave Hancox]

pete scott
Posted 05 April 2012 - 00:09

Just a thought to add to this competition. Quite a few people make an effort to go out & take photos & unfortunately get nothing for their recognition for taking the time to do so if they don't get any votes which is exactly the same score as someone who doesn't bother ( looks embarrassed & shuffles from foot to foot). What about giving a base 5 points per photo entered as recognition for adding to the competition plus any votes, thus people who only maybe enter once or twice a year have a score that reflects on that & those who actively enter month after month & contributing to this rich competition get some added recognition for their efforts. Just thinking aloud & sharing a thought
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[Flatlander]

Tricky. A nice idea, but...

For a lot of months last year I had nothing worth posting, because there was no weather to speak of here (I can say that because I'm not on the Executive!). It wasn't through lack of carrying a camera around (although I didn't get very far from here for a lot of the year).

I could have posted something for those months, but in my mind it would have just diluted the competition with some not very interesting pictures. These would have deservedly collected nil points anyway.

I quite like it the way it is because I don't have to admit to the rubbish...

This post has been edited by Tim Prosser: 05 April 2012 - 11:55

[Chris CW (aka Seedubs)]

All valid points, I agree to some degree with Pete's suggestion, although I also agree with Tim's points.

I too normally only submit photos that I deem worthy or are at least weather related. I try to take shots most weekends, but invariably they are 'landscape' with a sky, so not always weather related so I leave them out. I think I submitted twice last year. This year I have tried to submit something each month thus far. Maybe 1 point for submission, awarded for effort.

Like the idea of themes, although again that might filter out individuals who cannot meet that theme that month due to location for instance.

Not sure about the idea of pro camera's and compacts, where is the line drawn? Some compact pictures I have seen are excellent. Some of my better pics were taken on my Bridge camera. It isnt necessarily about the camera, more about being in the right place at the right time and understanding photography a little. Plus, with a pro camera there is more to mess up, compacts tend to do some of the hard work for you. But still maybe a separate monthly point for best DSLR shot and best Compact/mobile shot?

I think this thread is a good idea to mix it up a little with regards the competiton.

[Bazmundo]

Some excellent points for discussion, perhaps we can condense them into a poll at some point.

I sometimes wonder if a photo forecast thread for any given day is a good idea, for anyone to start on any given day of interest. Considering we can get good cloud info from the models, SatRep, near real-time satellite imagery and even things like the RASPtable to get even more technical. There's often a mention in the Conv Fcst discussions as to whether or not Cbs will be photogenic, why not do the same for other types (like Nigel does for dust devils, etc) but host it in the Photography Forum? At least then we could discuss a heads-up for taking a camera (of any type) to work or play, and maybe get some more entrants.

[Uskys]

This may be a bit controversial?

I feel that many photographs entered only have a weather aspect as a sort of by-product with the main emphasis of the photo being subject matter that is nothing to do with the weather, like stunning landscpes, flora and fauna, views etc.
So as they are included in the competition they tend to get voted for. As nice as they are I'd prefer to see the competition filled with just photos of tornadoes, clouds, dust devils, rain falling, snow falling, hail falling etc.

With regards to Pete's suggestion and subsequent posts perhaps we could have a voting system where all photos are are voted for..... it may be too much to ask a voter to do but if there was technilogical way of adding software so when viewing a photo it was possible to give a vote of between 1 & 5 stars for each picture ...etc

[chrisips]

To put my two penneth in, i tend to agree with Andre that alot of the photos tend to have a landscape or something else as their focal point and are less weather orientated, although absolutely stunning a picture with 3 quarters landscape and just a quarter cloud or sky is IMO not weather related.

[pete scott]

So while we're on the criteria of what is a weather photo should sunsets & sunrises be classified as something else, imo the sun is an object in space much like the moon & if it's the focal point of the photo is it weather? I don't think it is personally & any voting i submit will reflect this POV. If the Sun can be categorised as weather surely the Aurora can be as well, after all it's affecting some parts of our atmosphere directly. All very controversial but where do you draw the line & how would you go about it? If the scoring is reflected purely on a "weather" subject do we disregard the effort the photographer has gone to try & make a well balanced photo by including some form of foreground interest, landscape, terrain etc... We could be in danger of ending up with a lot of entries showing the sky only & tbh down here in Essex we have rather a lot of that as its so firkin flat & featureless lol.

[Halo]

I dunno though. The majority of colourful sunrises/sunsets will involve clouds which are weather related. You could have a situation where there may be lenticulars sunward which are reflecting colour or a noteworthy pillar or someone may have a go at taking a photo of a green flash. All are weather related as far as I'm concerned. Would they then just be disregarded?

[JOKE_SNOW]

I prefer the more relaxed term of 'weather inspired' in contrast to 'weather related', as being inspired by what the weather creates is a more adventurous challenged than simply taking pictures of the same thing day in/day out.
Although not in a meteorological term, such images as reflection/sunsets/sunrises/contrails/landscapes do owe their qualities to the way the weather works around them.

[Howard Kirby]

Interesting thread...and ofcourse its been discussed for years. Personally I always bear in mind effort when voting, not just quality of camera or whetever. In fact not just effort, but sometimes imagination aswell as commitment.
I have a feeling most people vote for what they see regardless of whether the photographer has broken their neck to get the shot of some distant clouds over a mountain or if they have got a lightning strike out of a bedroom window the latter will win because people like to see lightning.

Could always give each photo a mark out of ten instead of a ranking and that way they will all get points but I can't really tell people how to vote...especially as its not always guaranteed that voters will read the post at the top of the page explaining how to vote anyway.

[Chris CW (aka Seedubs)]

With regards to being weather related, I think we are all guilty of adding a little artistic foreground/subject matter to help frame the image.

That said, I for one would award a higher mark for good examples of 'weather'. For instance we get a good landscape with a few cumulus clouds rolling by, which as a photograph is stunning, but someone manages to capture an excellent example of mammatus on their mobile walking to their car from work. Well the mamma would get the higher mark and I think we would all do that, afterall this is a weather forum not flickr or snapfish.

I think the grading a picture 1 to 10 as you can see on some forums is a good idea, technically how that translates into marks is another matter.

[Dave Hancox]

Some interesting comments and points made, although moving off the topic of scoring a bit.

In my opinion it works fairly well, but agree it is disappointing when you get a zero score but makes it all the more worthwhile when you do.

As for subject matter the main focal point should be the weather. The fact that some have better foregrounds than others and get more votes is because they get the votes, the voters, are mainly the competitors so we actively encourage it maybe?

The competition is for fun, and we have been accused of being to strict with the rules in the past. Howard has tried to make it simple and fun relying on the entrants and members to monitor themselves and only occasionally having to remove a pic from the comp.

As for Northern Lights, NLC's etc we have the Space Weather forum which covers the category very well, They are only available opportunity's for some to have the chance of catching them so fit in the Space Weather Forum well.

Sunsets and Sunrises are a great time to photograph the clouds and sky affording the best lighting so shouldn't be discounted we have had moon bows, rays and nighttime anvils illuminated by the moon also.

As for scoring I like Andres suggestion a rating for each picture not sure if it would be practical or if software could manage it, interesting. It is a time consuming competition to run for Howard.

Certainly food for thought in this thread keep it coming.

As for photo forecasts, i think it would require extensive work due to local conditions over the UK, but nothing to stop us putting in alerts in for one another when we get an interesting set of conditions.

Cheers
Dave

[Flatlander]

Every voter has their own preference. Otherwise why have everyone voting? I think it works fine as it is. If you don't think a picture has enough weather, then don't vote for it...

Almost all landscape pictures have a weather element otherwise they wouldn't be very interesting. Look at a Turner or a Constable. Are they weather pictures? In most cases I would say yes. Even a blue sky is depicting weather, depending on the subject.

The more difficult question is - is this a photography competition, or is it a competition to photograph the most interesting weather? I try and judge on both, although perhaps not always consistently. Yes, John has better scenery and more interesting weather in the winter, but he's also much better than most of us technically too, which is why he wins half the time.

I don't think it is much to do with the camera, either. For the purposes of a web-sized shot I think almost any digital camera is capable of a good picture. I've often done better scoring wise with the compact, simply because I had it with me when I was out and about.

The only possible question I have about scoring relates to the number of voters - a photograph may attract more points just because there are more voters in a particular month. Perhaps there should be a percentage score for each month instead of just points - but I wouldn't want to create any more work for Howard as it is a lengthy enough job as it is. It is only a bit of fun!

This post has been edited by Tim Prosser: 05 April 2012 - 20:11

[pete scott]

lol, yes it appears to have wandered off subject & is what a forum is all about people throwing in ideas & discussing ideas as you would do when sat round a table in the pub enjoying a beer with friends. My main thought to start with was about recognising those who try & try & try without so much as a point to show for their efforts & this becomes apparent on the table over the course of the year when every month it reads "0". That's the same score as me for 10 months of the year because i don't enter anything but luckily somehow i get some votes when i have done which puts me on a higher score than someone who makes an effort every month.
I can see the value of the argument of if we gave points just for entering photos it would lessen the quality of the high standard that does come in, I just wanted a way that would reward effort & hard work fairly & would be shown at the end of the year for those that have. If you look at the league table it says for those who have scored 0 "a score of 0 does not necessarily mean a photo was entered that month", I think it needs to be recognised that the individual has entered. The 5 points was just some random number i plucked out from the air, maybe 1 point is enough or maybe i'm just rambling on lol.

[Howard Kirby]

pete scott, on 05 April 2012 - 21:12, said:

If you look at the league table it says for those who have scored 0 "a score of 0 does not necessarily mean a photo was entered that month", I think it needs to be recognised that the individual has entered. The 5 points was just some random number i plucked out from the air, maybe 1 point is enough or maybe i'm just rambling on lol.

The only reason I do that is so Excel ( or openoffice equivalent ) can do the calculations for me so I have to stick a zero in the cells rather than leave it blank.
If we do ever change the scoring system it will have to be next Jan anyway so its consistent through the year. But I'm sure people would find flaws in any new system too...as they do with this one so we may as well carry on as we are IMO. If you look at this table http://www.ukweather...able-2006-2011/ it tells its own story...all those mentioned there have put a great deal of effort over the years.

[Andy Mayhew]

I can see pros and cons with all the suggestions made - but I do agree with Pete that this has been (and I daresay will continue to be) a good discussion and it's nice to read people's thoughts

[Dave Hancox]

This has been an interesting thread and some interesting views expressed. Think it should be Pinned and title changed to Photo Comp Discussion so we can keep it going. Don't forget to vote this month.

[Floss the dog]

Must admit that my initial thought was yes, a good idea, but reading other people's thoughts I am persuaded against. It seems to me that any perceived imbalance in the scores would pop up in a different way. Beware the Law of Unintended Consequences Its a great competition, and I suggest we don't want to create more work for Howard. True that a dramatic landscape can enhance a particular weather phenomenon but like others have said, I try to vote on the weather element, coupled with composition and good camera technique. Hope I'm not rambling too much. My vote goes to the status quo. (Who ? )